What is the definition of 'anti-Mormon'? - Anti-Mormon Caucus (Just Kidding)

Mormon Times ^ | March 5, 2010 | By McKay Coppins

[greyfoxx39]

What is the definition of 'anti-Mormon'?

 

I have often heard the criticism that Latter-day Saints classify everyone who disagrees with our beliefs as "anti-Mormon." Of course, the people who say this are usually anti-Mormons. Am I proving their point? I don't think so.

I actually agree that this is a problem in our church. After all, our belief system, if firmly embraced, demands a lot of personal sacrifice, and we often become hyper-defensive when we sense a threat to our faith.

Unfortunately, this often leads to irrational name-calling and blindly neglecting to differentiate between non-Mormons and anti-Mormons.

Of course, that's not to say anti-Mormons don't exist, or that it's unimportant to identify them. We just need to properly define the term.

First of all, we shouldn't call people who simply don't believe in Mormonism "anti-Mormons." We should call them Catholics or Baptists or Muslims or atheists. People who ascribe themselves to faiths or philosophies that contradict Mormonism should not automatically be seen as antagonists. They should be credited with having their own beliefs.

Now, what about people who try to convert Latter-day Saints to their belief systems? Are they anti-Mormons?

No.

The believing Baptist who testifies of his church's doctrine to a Latter-day Saint is trying to do something he believes is constructive. Even if he attempts to point out supposed flaws in Mormon doctrine, if his genuine intent is to save a soul and he maintains a polite, rational tone, I don't think he deserves the anti-Mormon label. After all, should Mormon missionaries be considered anti-Catholics or anti-Protestants?

The line, I believe, that separates non-Mormons from anti-Mormons is motivation. Anti-Mormons are people who put down Mormon beliefs, practices and people simply for the sake of destroying their faith. Not many anti-Mormons would admit that is their primary goal, of course, but that doesn't mean it isn't so.

For the most part, anti-Mormons should be ignored. But before that can happen, they have to be identified

[Suz in AZ]

“See as how Mormonism is almost totally reliant on the ignoring of facts, the ignoring of those presenting them comes as no surprise.”

Nah. More like ignoring the time-wasting name-callers. Tell me that you haven’t seen it all over the place here LOL.

Silly.

[Tennessee Nana]

Christianity can be classified into FIVE distinct branches:

1. Roman Catholic
2. Eastern Christian
3. Anglican/Independent Catholic
4. Protestant
5. Mormon
____________________________________________

I’m stunned...

Really.....

1. I was an Anglican and I was a PROTESTANT

2. mormonism is not Christianity

3. Dont listen to FARMS or FAIR but think for yourself

[ejonesie22]

Only thing I see is the posting of dogma and other information straight from LDS sources, the LDS trying to explain away the obviously embarrassing and mythical and the ensuing fun at watching the spin and effort of playing victim and lashing out which sadly does draw in the so called “antis” at times when they respond...

[Tennessee Nana]

Mormons hold their feelings close to the vest
_____________________________________________________

Well not in these threads they dont...

The vitriol from mormons is open wide throtle...

[ejonesie22]

I think I remember seeing that. His connection to LDS HQ must be down. He is not getting his weekly “what we stand for and believe this week unless we need to say something else” report...

[ejonesie22]

4 out of five ain't bad for accuracy there Eddie...

your batting average is higher than Joe Smith's...

[Tennessee Nana]

In Iraq Saddam was just like Joey Smith...

They both led the same kinds of lives...

Saddam gave his life for what he believed too...

[reaganaut]

The players on this forum have repeatedly lied and distorted our true beliefs.

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You make a broad and blatant accuastion here.

Please show me/us WHERE I/we have ‘repeatedly lied and distorted [your] true beliefs;?

I used to be LDS, I know what the LDS church teaches and believes, I lived it for a long time.

However, I have found that the ones often lying and playing down the unique Mormon beliefs are their own members.

As my Mission Prep, professor stated “If we told them (potential converts) the truth, no one would join”.

[Tennessee Nana]

And then there was Mohammad who died for what he believed too ...

Mohammad is considered a martyr...

Joey Smith wanted to be worshipped and adored just like Mohammad was...

Joey tried so hard to be like his idol, Mohammad...

Did he make it ????

“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”[1]
It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels.

Consider the following.
Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]

Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer.

Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.

Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new “spin.” In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters—but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to “correct” the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the “Inspired Version,” in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is “correcting” it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.

As a part of their new scriptural “spin,” both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible—by name.

Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”[3]

Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet’s own superior revelation.

Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered “infidels,” pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.

Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.

Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed’s followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, believe Mohammed’s son was to be their next leader. Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith’s followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith’s own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.

Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.
“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith’s claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.
________________________________________

[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8–9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6–7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408–409.

[Suz in AZ]

“Only thing I see is the posting of dogma and other information straight from LDS sources, the LDS trying to explain away the obviously embarrassing and mythical and the ensuing fun at watching the spin and effort of playing victim and lashing out which sadly does draw in the so called “antis” at times when they respond...”

LOL!!!! You make my point exactly! You have no desire to share ideas. You participate for your own amusement.

So you see, I have no desire to waste my time with this.

Bye bye! And don’t bother posting anything back. I will ignore you.

[Suz in AZ]

Well, if you want to change the conversation... then I would stop calling him “Joey Smith”.

Pretty rude. Just sayin’. But I somehow don’t think that will change. Bye.

[Tennessee Nana]

Dont let the door hit you in the butt...

[reaganaut]

Many LDS are gladly willing to have a conversation, but it is useless to talk with people who have already made up their minds and their only intent is to abuse or spread mistruths.

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Show me where I have done that. Seriously.

Most LDS do not engage with “anti’s” because they are told not to that they are only seeking to destroy the LDS faith. There is also a strong element of fear that checking out the sources will lead to the LDS person losing their ‘testimony’.

I was confident enough in my LDS testimony and in the truth of the church that I decided to ‘take on’ the anti’s. And I found out they (anti’s) were right on the history and quotes. I left after almost a year of research and investigation and soon after gave my life to the Jesus of the Bible.

I was freed from the legalistic chains of Mormonism and love Mormons enough to see them free as well.

[Tennessee Nana]

I am as polite as I am not required to be by casling the occultist Joey Smith that instead of child rapist and demon possesed pagan ...

Which would you rather ???

Today I’m feeling generous...your choice for this next hour...

Oh thats right...

You left in a huff...

[ejonesie22]

That is always one of my favs we never quite hear our LDS friends want to discuss...

[reaganaut]

Joseph Smith sacrificed his life for his beliefs, more than anyone else here.

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ROFLMHO. JS died in a gunbattle not as a martyr. Martyrs DO NOT defend themselves.

And you want to see REAL persecution? Check out this site:

htttp://www.persecution.org

If God calls me to give my physical life then so be it, I will die gladly for my Lord and NOT defend myself. I have given Him my life in every other way, physical would be the least not the greatest sacrifice.

My pride in my Mormon faith was the greatest sacrifice. Mormonism made me ‘feel good’, made me feel like I was ‘part of the ONE true church’. God had to break me to see it is NOT a about a church, or a denomination, and that the only “ONE TRUE” anything is His sacrifice on the Cross for me.

[ejonesie22]

Um the thread started with a Post from a LDS source.

http://mormontimes.com/mormon_voices/mckay_coppins/?id=13657

Reality, it's not just for breakfast anymore...

As far as not posting back, I would not want to either at the rate you're going...

[reaganaut]

There’s a club?”

Yeah, we just haven’t shown you the secret handshakes or given you your secret name yet.

- - - — -
Or the magic underwear...don’t for get the “garments of the (un)holy Priesthood”.

[svcw]

I have a question, JS was in jail where did he get the gun to fight back?

In this statement you appear to equate Jesus and JS, is that what you meant?

I would say the similarity between JS and Jesus would be that they both preached what they believed, and those who were angered by it, killed them.

The Savior and His infinite sacrifice for the sins of the world is unparalleled.

[ejonesie22]

I'd hit the silk too...