Posted on 03/01/2010 11:55:25 AM PST by NoRedTape
" Historically, only until recently have Mormons wanted to be called Christians, preferring not to be included with Christian denominations which Joseph Smith said were, "all wrong...all there creeds were an abomination in his sight, and that those professors (Christians) were all corrupt." (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, 2:18-19) In the past Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons) have preferred to be called "saints." However, in the recent years the LDS church has spend millions in an intense public relations campaign aimed at moving their church into the mainstream of Christianity.
(slice)
First: Mormons do not follow or believe in the historic Jesus Christ of the Bible, but rather a different Jesus. This is why most biblical Christians emphatically insist that Mormons are not Christians. Let me explain..............
The god of the Mormons is not the God of the Bible.... "
(Excerpt) Read more at bible-truth.org ...
But you are a spirit to and right now.
Why the resurrection, then? Why punish us with a body?
These things simply don’t make sense. How do you get to a Heaven that is spiritual and solely the habitation of spirits if salvation involves resurrection, bodily resurrection?
All the sources I referenced involve reputable, respected Christian scholarship. Please provide references and/or links to “newer” views you claim exist.
Stick to the Bible, avoid ANYTHING Joe Smith ever blabbered and you'll be OK. Not sure of what you want. Many mormons think Jesus was born in Jerusalem.......but Jesus was born in Bethlehem. It's all sacred scripture from there. (including how Jesus's mom conceived). The mormons only have the skewed contrived dreams of Smith. The Bible has the truth. Like I say, email me and we'll chat. But I'm no Biblical scholar........I just know the Bible from the cultish BS.
Why, how gnostic of you!!!
14for if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, so also God those asleep through Jesus he will bring with him
How many died saved? Ever in the entire history of the world?
........just the blind ones. (figuratively speaking).
Which, BTW, is NEVER mentioned in the Book of Mormon, which the D&C describes as the "fulness of the everlasting gospel." If necro-baptism was part of this "fulness of the everlasting gospel," it would have been included in the BoM. It's not. Which means it isn't.
Your limited sensory mechanism leads you to make simplistic assertions. We all do it. But consider what relation dimension Time plays in the whole process. We think in very limited ways about Time as a river. God showed us that He can appear with His Jesus body at any place in time (see Daniel Chapter five). When God measures the heart, He is taking a compleytely different perspective than we can even imagine. When He measures the heart, perhaps He is able to account whether the soul will rebel against His sovereingty when absolute Truth is before it. We just have no fit answer for how it is that God measures the soul of those who have never heard of Jesus. But we may be certain that no man cometh unto the Father but through Jesus, so He is the dorway ALL must encounter at some where/when.
What the..............?
Are they simply embarrassed at the use of cement or do they want folks to visit? What's the dang deal?
Can you give references?
Also, if it isn’t solved then what happens to all the “window dressing” of humanity over the ages. Straight to Hell for eternal damnation, punishment that never ends because they didn’t hear the Gospel, know what a Hebrew even was and couldn’t have ever?
Can you find dead dunking in the book of mormon ???
No, they don't. It presumes that there's either "paperwork" or gold birth certificates hanging around in archives & in the earth for all those living in pre-Gutenberg times. Or do you just want to remain oblivious to that little reality?
Lds believe that "...hell...is a temporary state in which spirits will be taught the gospel & have the opportunity to repent & accept ordinances for them that are performed." (True to the Faith, 2004, official Lds publication, p. 81)
Now what's wrong with this statement?
(1) It negates Hebrews 9:27 "For it is appointed for man to die once, and then the judgement"
(2) It creates a false sense of security for earthly man: "Oh, I can repent AFTER I die"
(3) In light of what I said above -- the vast majority of Dark Ages & before will never have their records found, how can the Lds church turn around and say this is MANDATED for EVERY spirit before they can be judged? Joseph Smith taught that "ALL those who have not had an opportunity of hearing the Gospel, and being administered unto by an inspired man in the flesh, MUST have it hereafter, BEFORE they can be finally judged. (Lds Presidents book on Smith, p. 471)
(4) Lds assume not only can they arrange eternal relationships with God and Jesus Christ post-death, but they can do marital match-making for the deceased. (Someone start the Halloween Morg music): "In the temple, we can perform ALL the ordinances necessary for the exaltation of those who have died. This includes temple marriage." (Official Lds teaching pub -- Gospel Principles, p. 248) [Yeah, all: Think of The Addams family performing ghoulish eternal wedding rituals for the dead]
(5) It treats mere men as "saviors" -- what Reaganaut has previously noted in other threads
Citations from former lds "prophets": ...we are the only people that know how to save our progenitors, how to save ourselves, and how to save our posterity in the celestial kingdom of God;...we in fact are the saviours of the world..." (Lds "prophet" John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, vol.6, p.163).
"... mortals have to be saviors on Mount Zion, acting by proxy for the dead." (LDS "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, p. 325)
"We know something about our progenitors, and God has taught us how to be saviors for them by being baptized for them in the flesh, that they may live according to God in the Spirit." (LDS "prophet" John Taylor, March 20,1870, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, 3/20/1870)
If God is evil, where did good come from?
What about babies? What about aborted children? Hell for the lot of them?
Not likely. There is enough Scripture to support the belief that those who die before a certain age, called the age of accountability, will go to heaven, and that may actually be the majority of the human race.
As far as God not leaving a witness for those who never heard the Gospel specifically, try reading *Eternity in their Hearts* by Don Richardson.
Besides, the Gospel has been preached far more widely than those who like to portray God like you do, would like to believe.
God promised a redeemer from the very first and news of His works have traveled across the lands, even in OT times. They never heard of Jesus, but they had faith in the Redeemer who was to come and that counted.
As for those who never heard, or never had a chance to, God doesn't tell us how He deals with them. However, God's judgment is just and He will ultimately do what He knows is right, not what we think ought to be right.
punishment that never ends because they didn’t hear the Gospel
_____________________________________________
Pack your bags kid...
nobody here is stopping you...
you have a world out there waiting for you to preach them the Gospel...
But remember...
They have to hear it and accept it WHILE THEY ARE STILL ALIVE...
Once they are dead its too late...
so times awasting...
I dont expect to see you back on these threads so
good luck God speed...
“How many died saved? Ever in the entire history of the world?” Until you explain to me how God measures the heart of those who never heard of The Grace of God In Christ while in their bodies, I cannot answer your question satisfactorily. But consider this: when Jesus stated that no man comes unto the Father but by Him (Jesus), He spoke at a nexus of time, with hundreds of millions having lived before He was even born, yet somehow God can measure the heartts of even those. We are also told that to those who hear the Gospel of Grace, there is no ‘other’ escape clause.
We are spirits with bodies and will get new bodies to inhabit heaven after we die, if we’ve put our faith in the Jesus of the Bible.
Heaven isn’t solely the habitation of spirits. That’s wrong theology. No wonder you’re confused.
One people group initially selected. The rest were promised they, too, would be blessed through a descendent of theirs -- right at the get-go of the covenant process (Gen. 12:1-3).
A non-perfect, but semi-similar parallel of Biblical election is the constant Biblical theme of Christ as Bridegroom and the Church as the Bride.
(Hey, tho, if you're married...or plan to be one day...just tell your wife what a "sick system" marriage is...you'd rather have both a faithful wife who implicitly trust you and many unfaithful wives who ignore you & run around on you...)
............there’s only spirits in heaven. What makes you think otherwise? No bodies.......just spirits. Please expound. Protect your soul; the soul is the only vital part that leaves the earth.
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