Posted on 03/01/2010 11:55:25 AM PST by NoRedTape
" Historically, only until recently have Mormons wanted to be called Christians, preferring not to be included with Christian denominations which Joseph Smith said were, "all wrong...all there creeds were an abomination in his sight, and that those professors (Christians) were all corrupt." (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, 2:18-19) In the past Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons) have preferred to be called "saints." However, in the recent years the LDS church has spend millions in an intense public relations campaign aimed at moving their church into the mainstream of Christianity.
(slice)
First: Mormons do not follow or believe in the historic Jesus Christ of the Bible, but rather a different Jesus. This is why most biblical Christians emphatically insist that Mormons are not Christians. Let me explain..............
The god of the Mormons is not the God of the Bible.... "
(Excerpt) Read more at bible-truth.org ...
This very question agains makes me wonder if you were ever LDS
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Oh, we are back to that “you were never LDS” again.
Resty, I am trying to explain Christian doctrine in a way the LDS would understand it.
Christians believe that when we die we go back to God the father, not because of what we have done but because of what Christ has done.
The LDS believe that they go to a holding area, paradise, and IF they were worthy enough, they will go to the CK. But they can NEVER know in this life (unless they have their calling and election made sure) that they will actually make it to the CK.
Christians have assurance that the LDS do not. That is a wonderful thing to know where you are going ultimately when you die.
LOL. that is wrong. funny but wrong.
Your response is nonsensical. Christ plainly told Mary He had yet to ascend to His Father. 1 Peter 3:18,19 plainly states Christ was in the spirit world teaching His Gospel. Your efforts to equate paradise with heaven are scripturally unsupported.
Christ did not have time to ascend to his Father because for three days he was wrestling Satan over the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. So no he was not teaching His Gospel to spirits.
See IThess4 especially verses 13 thru 18
Again, you err.
Here is a sampling of the analysis of 1 Cor. 15:29 by various biblical scholars/theologians wherein they recognize vicarious posthumous baptisms were being performed by early Christians in Corinth:
“The normal reading of the text is that some Corinthians are being baptized, apparently vicariously, in behalf of some people who have already died. It would be fair to add that this reading is such a plain understanding of the Greek text that no one would ever have imagined the various alternatives were it not for the difficulties involved.’’(Gordon Fee, The First Epistle to the Corinthians, Grand Rapids, Mich.: Eerdmans, 1989, pp. 763-64.)
“Again, the Apostle alludes to a practice of the Corinthian community as evidence for a Christian faith in the resurrection of the dead. It seems that in Corinth some Christians would undergo baptism in the name of their deceased non-Christian relatives and friends, hoping that this vicarious baptism might assure them a share in the redemption of Christ.’’ (From The Jerome Biblical Commentary, ed. Raymond E. Brown, Joseph A. Fitzmyer, and Roland E. Murphy, Englewood Cliffs, N.J.: Prentice-Hall, 1968, 2:273.)
“St. Paul then, almost in parenthesis, touches on what appears to have been a custom among the Corinthian Christians of baptizing by proxy on behalf of some, presumably members of the same family, who had died unbaptized and might therefore, it was thought, miss their chance of being incorporated into the fulness of Christ’s Kingdom at his Advent. This practice, says the apostle, makes as little sense as his own daily contempt for physical death, if there is no resurrection.” (William Neil, One Volume Commentary On The Bible, London: Hodder and Stoughton, 1973, p. 461)
“. . . the most natural meaning of the expression [used by Paul in 1 Cor. 15:29] is that some early believers got themselves baptized on behalf of friends of theirs who had died without receiving that sacrament.” (Leon Morris, The First Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians, London: Tyndale Press, 1964, p. 218)
“Close inspection of the language of the reference makes all attempts to soften or eliminate its literal meaning unsuccessful. An endeavor to understand the dead as persons who are “dead in sin” does not really help; for the condition offered, if the dead are not being raised at all, makes it clear that the apostle is writing about persons who are physically dead. It appears that under the pressure of concern for the eternal destiny of dead relatives or friends some people in the church were undergoing baptism on their behalf in the belief that this would enable the dead to receive the benefits of Christ’s salvation.” (James Moulten and George Milligan, The Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1981, p. 651, original emphasis)
“Here Paul returns to his argument for the resurrection of the dead. There is a special difficulty in understanding v. 29 because we do not know the background of the words “baptized for the dead.” There are many interpretations, but it is difficult to find a satisfactory one. The present tense “baptize” suggests that the practice of baptizing for the dead was current and evidently well known to the Corinthians. . . .
. . . its [”huper’s”, the Greek word behind “for” in “baptized for the dead”] basic meaning with the genitive is “for,” “in behalf of,” or “in the place of.”
According to [H. A. W.] Meyer, this verse means that believers already baptized were rebaptized for the benefit of believers who had died unbaptized. This was done on the assumption that it would count for the unbaptized dead and thereby assure their resurrection along with the baptized, living believers. . . .(The Expositor’s Bible Commentary, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan Publishing House, 1976, vol. 10, pp. 287-288)
“. . . whatever doubt some members of the Church had concerning it, there were others who were such firm believers in the resurrection that they submitted to this rite of vicarious baptism on behalf of certain of their brethren, probably catechumens, who had passed away before they had been baptized and received into full membership of the Church.” (The Interpreter’s Bible, New York: The Abingdon Press, 1952-1957, vol. 10, p. 240)
Among these various scholars and theologians, there is little dispute that vicarious posthumous baptism was a practice of early Christianity.
Okay. That means that a claim of not having intended something to be misrepresentative or twisted is sufficient to make any accusation of hatefulness "whining", absent outright vulgarity.
Spirit world is “abraham’s bosom”. Not nonsensical at all. But if you only read the Bible through LDS glasses, you may not get it.
Did you even look at the link?
And I thank God, in His name, that you too, fellow believer in Chrsit, have that same trust. It is what unites us as fellow believers, and will bring us back home to Him in His time.
Think of all the “window dressing” of humanity over the ages. A tiny tribe in the Fertile Crescent gets salvation while billions born across the continents over the history of humanity eternal damnation. Absurd and unchristian, what kind of God sets up a sick system like that?
Yet the LDS solve that one through their temple work for the dead.
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The mormons dont solve anything with their pagan dead dunking...
They juswt get wet and look stupid...
Its not Biblcal...and Paul said the pagans practiced it...
Jesus shed His blood and died on the cross to save us...
He said IT IS FINISHED...
God is Almighty able to save...
The mormons believe they are their own saviors...
They claim they are becoming gods...
their mormon god used to be a man...
Their god has a god of his own etc...
the Christian god has always been God...
Isa 43: 10 “You are My witnesses,” declares the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me. 11 “I, even I, am the Lord, And there is no savior besides Me.
Resty, I am trying to explain Christian doctrine in a way the LDS would understand it.
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Hello I understand it I was in the mainstream for 38 years!
I am aware of the various interpretation, but the CONTEXT does not support that. I Cor talks about the Resurrection. Paul uses “ they” not “we” (which he uses when talking about believers). What you posted is older views on it. Newer scholarship (especially Christian scholarship) equates it with a gnostic practice, not part of the orthodox Christian Church.
In either case, Paul does not condone the practice, he states that it occurs.
Yet the LDS draw this one sentence out into a whole system of temple rites.
Then why are you having an issue with understanding my question.
And you may have been mainstream, but you obviously missed the message or you wouldn’t have become Mormon.
I think I’ll stick with the scriptures. And I’m hardly a Calvinist!
God’s judgment will prove just - see Romans 2. Nor is there any scriptural support for temple work for the dead - see Hebrews 9.
No, scripture doesn’t teach a human body for God - not the OT, not the NT.
But I don’t expect someone who denies Jesus is God to worry much about scripture.
will bring us back home to Him in His time.
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Jeff what is that suppose to mean ???
None of us humans have ever been “home” with God before ...
Only Jesus ever came down from Heaven...
and Jesus is God who became flesh...
Christians get to go to Heaven where God is for the first time when they die...
He doesn’t go on to condemn it. How do you account for it?
They estimate that the human population of the world over history at around 10 billion. How many of those ever heard the Gospel on earth. How do you account for that from a loving God?
Not even a chance - straight to Hell for the bunch of them.
Why even have China or India? What a waste of humanity. It makes God out to be, well evil is the only word for it.
What about babies? What about aborted children? Hell for the lot of them?
Yes, that's true. He hadn't ascended to his Father IN HIS BODY. Note that the rest of the disciples didn't touch Him either; doubting Thomas was invited, but did not dare.
No need for a separate 'paradise' unless you're already looking for one.
Sheesh, it’s a full court press tonight...
Christians believe that when we die we go back to God the father, not because of what we have done but because of what Christ has done.
Christians have assurance that the LDS do not. That is a wonderful thing to know where you are going ultimately when you die.
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Just curious what do you do on the Great and Dreadful day of the Lord!
Sing
Oh oH ha ha I am here and you are there!
sense you are there you cannot sip my beer!
Oh oH ha ha too bad for you can get the get flu
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