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To: kosta50; P-Marlowe; spirited irish; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; Quix; MHGinTN; Godzilla; xzins; ...
(It is that though He is the Creator of everything and everyone, from the very beginning, many have chosen to reject Him)

Tell me, since you are so smart, is that according to his will, or against it?

I'm of the opinion that all your questioning is very good, Kosta. You are asking exactly the right questions. The modern church, just like the Pelagian church, answered those questions unsatisfactorily by saying that God is somehow "unhappy" and that His love goes unrequited by men whose "free wills" are stronger than the intentional desires of the Holy Spirit.

It was those same errors which contradicted the Bible and destroyed the very notion of what "God" is which resulted in the Reformation.

From Scripture and the world around us we see that God does not love "all men" or all men would be saved. He loves His own.

A hard truth. But one which (because all things work for His glory and the good of those who are called) brings with it a truer sense of Christian redemption and thus, makes us preach the word more loudly and live the word more effectively every day.

No one knows the names of the elect. So we preach to all men as if all men might be saved. Beyond that is God's to know.

So ultimately, I think your questions result in either...

1) atheism/agnosticism (which is really just atheism for the squimish)

2) a lukewarm Arminianism which doesn't have any absolute answers other than "men are in charge"

3) the faith of Christ, Paul, Augustine, Calvin, Luther, Van Til, etc. which says God is in control of all of it. Start to finish. Good and bad.

1,025 posted on 03/12/2010 12:46:42 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; kosta50; P-Marlowe; spirited irish; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; Quix; MHGinTN; Godzilla; ..
spirited irish said: It is that though He is the Creator of everything and everyone, from the very beginning, many have chosen to reject Him.

To which kosta replied: Tell me, since you are so smart, is that according to his will, or against it?

Dear kosta, why would you conceive of spirited irish's observation as an either/or proposition? The above invites no kind of demonstration of Aristotle's Law of the Excluded Middle. This is real life. Hint: Look for complementarities, not mutually-exclusive propositions.

God could have made a "perfect" creation; but He didn't. He only made a "good" one.

Had He made a perfect creation, there would be no room for human free will in creation.

God knows His beloved; the Shepherd knows His own; and His sheep know His Voice. This pertains to the "ears to hear" controversy.

About which all I mainly can say to kosta is this: You would probably hear better, if you'd remove the pitch you put in your own ears to avoid God's Voice in the first place. Moreover, you'd probably have better eyes to see, too, if you could just get the self-imposed blinders off....

The Shepherd moreover has "many sheepfolds." And the Father most loves the prodigal son who comes back to Him....

Arrrgh. Have been wool-gathering here. Looks like you're presiding over a "mixed company" in these last posts, dear Dr. Eckleburg. If so, the dialogue appears to be in eminently rational hands.

Thank you ever so much for writing, dear sister in Christ!

1,033 posted on 03/12/2010 6:00:25 PM PST by betty boop (Moral law is not rooted in factual laws of nature; they only tell us what happens, not what ought to)
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