Posted on 02/28/2010 8:30:39 AM PST by CondoleezzaProtege
John Calvin's 16th century reply to medieval Catholicism's buy-your-way-out-of-purgatory excesses is Evangelicalism's latest success story, complete with an utterly sovereign and micromanaging deity, sinful and puny humanity, and the combination's logical consequence, predestination: the belief that before time's dawn, God decided whom he would save (or not), unaffected by any subsequent human action or decision.
Calvinism, cousin to the Reformation's other pillar, Lutheranism, is a bit less dour than its critics claim: it offers a rock-steady deity who orchestrates absolutely everything, including illness (or home foreclosure!), by a logic we may not understand but don't have to second-guess. Our satisfaction — and our purpose — is fulfilled simply by "glorifying" him. In the 1700s, Puritan preacher Jonathan Edwards invested Calvinism with a rapturous near mysticism. Yet it was soon overtaken in the U.S. by movements like Methodism that were more impressed with human will. Calvinist-descended liberal bodies like the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) discovered other emphases, while Evangelicalism's loss of appetite for rigid doctrine — and the triumph of that friendly, fuzzy Jesus — seemed to relegate hard-core Reformed preaching (Reformed operates as a loose synonym for Calvinist) to a few crotchety Southern churches.
No more. Neo-Calvinist ministers and authors don't operate quite on a Rick Warren scale. But, notes Ted Olsen, a managing editor at Christianity Today, "everyone knows where the energy and the passion are in the Evangelical world" — with the pioneering new-Calvinist John Piper of Minneapolis, Seattle's pugnacious Mark Driscoll and Albert Mohler, head of the Southern Seminary of the huge Southern Baptist Convention. The Calvinist-flavored ESV Study Bible sold out its first printing, and Reformed blogs like Between Two Worlds are among cyber-Christendom's hottest links.
(Excerpt) Read more at time.com ...
~ Charles Spurgeon
“And as Moses lifted up the bronze snake on a pole in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, so that everyone who believes in him will have eternal life. For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.
“There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.”
— Jesus (and the Apostle John, probably)
Buy your way out of purgatory = borrow your way out of debt.
Unreformed medieval Catholic Church = the Democratic Party.
The major problem with calvinism is that when you take its premise that God is responsible for everything, then God is ultimately the source of all evil.
In fact, terms like “sin”, “disobedience”, or “obedience” become meaningless since all human activity or actions is merely God’s robotic creation “acting” according to His divine blueprint.
Courage, cowardice, even love are meaningless since human being are simply acting out the “plan” designed for them.
The major problem with calvinism is that when you take its premise that God is responsible for everything, then God is ultimately the source of all evil.
In fact, terms like “sin”, “disobedience”, or “obedience” become meaningless since all human activity or actions is merely God’s robotic creation “acting” according to His divine blueprint.
Courage, cowardice, even love are meaningless since human being are simply acting out the “plan” designed for them.
The major problem with calvinism is that when you take its premise that God is responsible for everything, then God is ultimately the source of all evil.
Agreed. No one can tell me that illness and death aren't Satan's tools.
According to the Westminster Confession of Faith, everything that happens to the extent that it happens, in the order that it happens, and who it happens to, is all for the Reformed God's pleasure. I have also been instructed by the Reformed that satan is a tool of the Reformed God who uses him for His pleasure and to do His will. Indeed, it appears that satan can do no other than what the Reformed God has predestined for him.
Hi Nevadan and Norge. First off, the problem with NOT believing in Calvinism gives one the idea that GOD is somehow "weaker" than Satan. That somehow, Satan wins out and gets his way. And looking at the history of the human race, it would seem that Satan is really the one in charge.
Secondly, not believing in Calvinism gives the idea that there is no ultimate, underlying order in the universe. That death, pain, and suffering just sort of happen purposelessly, and that there's no ultimate aim behind things like natural disasters. If a young believer is battling a life-threatening illness, and has no belief that GOD is ultimately the one in control, what's the point in praying? And then, should he or she die, what solace would there be to the family members if they do not have faith in GOD'S sovereignty over the matter?
Just think, wasn't Christ's suffering, death, and resurrection prophecied for thousands of years? Christ prophecied it all throughout his ministry. He even knew Judas would betray him. Why? Because everything was going to go as PLANNED. GOD was fully in control of every last detail, and even what Satan meant for ill, GOD meant for good (as Christ's resurrection attests to)...which leads me to my final point:
GOD is not the author of evil. He *permits* evil. He *allows* for it because it plays a role in the fulfillment of His ultimate, eternal plan for His people. If you read the book of JOB, you'd see that He *permits* Satan to wreak havoc on even the lives of the most faithful people. But, even SATAN is ultimately under GOD'S jurisdiction. Satan can't work beyond what GOD allows. Because in the end, everything will go exactly as GOD intends.
“Secondly, not believing in Calvinism gives the idea that there is no ultimate, underlying order in the universe.”
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nonsense.
Don’t get me wrong. I admire the Calvinist ethic. It has contributed immeasurably to this country’s greatness.
But what you posted is the same rewarmed sophistry that Calvinists always post.
God can and does delegate responsibility and is STILL sovereign. His sovereignty by definition means He CAN do that and isn’t “weaker” as a result.
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Well, I have a few friends at Calvin College. But I must say that virtually all the Evangelicals I know think that Calvin is nuts. Indeed, they are rather more forthright in speaking their mind than I usually am.
Why on EARTH is Time magazine pushing this silliness?
Just check out the five points Dutch Calvinists agreed on at the Synod of Dort, before they started executing their opponents for Arminianism.
“Indeed, it appears that satan can do no other than what the Reformed God has predestined for him.”
I agree with your point to the extent that the Bible doesn’t
teach Satan’s acts are predestined. The outcome of any act
he takes, however, falls within God’s sovereignty.
If Satan can act outside the sovereign will of God, then God
isn’t sovereign.
That is quite different than “predestining” all acts.
blessings,
ampu
You show your ignorance. Click my screen name and scroll half-way down the page.
You cannot have it both ways. Either God is the author of evil because He dictates every action or else God permits free will to occur with the resulting evil that satan and men may do.
If God directs satan, then He is the author of evil. We Christians reject that. We believe that God is not the author of evil. And therefore satan operates within Creation of his own free will, as we do.
If Satan can act outside the sovereign will of God, then God isn’t sovereign.
That is quite different than “predestining” all acts.
Correct, to a point. One must define what sovereignty means first. If by sovereign, one means that God is the Creator and has set up the Universe for us, that is one thing. If by sovereign, one means that God is the ultimate computer programmer who has created a universe of robot slaves, that is another.
re: “GOD is not the author of evil. He *permits* evil. He *allows* for it because it plays a role in the fulfillment of His ultimate, eternal plan for His people. If you read the book of JOB, you’d see that He *permits* Satan to wreak havoc on even the lives of the most faithful people. But, even SATAN is ultimately under GOD’S jurisdiction. Satan can’t work beyond what GOD allows. Because in the end, everything will go exactly as GOD intends.”
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What you stated above is not what pure calvinism teaches. When you say, “God permits” or “God allows”, you imply that people, even Satan, have a will and the ability to act on that will - but, all within the boundarys set by God. That is not calvinism. Pure 5 point calvinism teaches not just that God “allows” or “permits”, but that He is the initiator and source of the act - otherwise God is not “sovereign”.
I agree with you that God is sovereign - but it is how one defines that sovereignty that is the problem. For the calvinistis I personally know - in order for God to be sovereign He must not only allow or permit - He is the author and initiator of all human acts and acts of nature.
On a personal note, I have a very dear friend who is now in the “reformed” camp. It nearly destroyed out friendship because he wanted me to agree with him on all this calvinistic stuff. The “god” of calvinism is not the God of the Bible. You speak of praying to God - my question is “why pray” - it has already been determined what God is going to do. Nothing you say or ask has any bearing on God’s will.
I agree that God allows evil and sorrow because if He didn’t there wouldn’t be any freedom for people to love or reject God. I say “amen” to the Book of Job. Satan acted but God set restrictions. That is not calvinism. I don’t really think that you are a calvinist in the strict sense of the word.
A King being sovereign over his kingdom does not necessarily mean that everyone within his kingdom does what he desires - yet that King is still sovereign - it is his kingdom and he ulimately has the final say over the actions of his subject. His subjects are “free” to act and yet are accountable to their king. Calvinism teaches that God must be the source and initiator of even sinful acts of man - or, He is not sovereign. This is why they believe that man cannot respond to God’s grace without he/she being preordestined to believe - because human beings do not even have the ability to respond to God on their own - that human beings are incapable, because of their sinful nature, to accept God’s salvation for them.
That is not the God of the Bible that I know. This whole calvinism thing has been argued about for the past 400 years and will probably be argued about until Jesus returns. I know that somehow we have human freedom to love, accept, or reject God’s grace - and, yet, God is still sovereign and the initiator of that grace. Without Him taking that step we would have no hope. But, we must as a willful act on our own reach out for that lifeline - when that one reaches out He saves that one. The reaching out by individual human beings doe in no way take away from the glory and sovereignty of Almighty God.
They are the result of the fall. It is at the fall that sin and death entered this world..
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