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To: roamer_1; wmfights
Ex 20:3 --> Mary is not a god or a goddess. She is considered a creature -- ask any Catholic from the simplest in the Philippines to the most erudite. She is a created being as attested by the doctrine as captured in Scripture and enunciated in the catechism.

Ex 20:4 -- Iconoclasm has been debated earlier and longer by better people than me with 1 Chr 28:18-19, Ezekial 41:17-18, Num 21:8-9, 1 Kings 6:29-31; 8:6-66, 2Chr 3:7-14, by your extension, the destruction of the Bamiyan statues was justified, however that's not the intent -- the intent is in 5

ex 20:5 -- Bow down and serve them implies worship of the divine, which is what is not done for these objects of clay or marble or wood.

God revealed himself in physical form in the form of the Man Jesus and in the form of a dove (Matt 3:16, Mark 1:10, Luke 3:22, John 1:32) and as tongues of fire (Acts 2:1-4) for the Holy Spirit. These images are used when drawing or painting these biblical episodes and on Holy Spirit labels etc.

While God the Fathe did reveal himself too in visible forms like in Daniel 7:9 "As I looked, thrones were placed and one that was ancient of days took his seat; his raiment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like pure wool; his throne was fiery flames, its wheels were burning fire"

And of course, God did reveal a form for himself in Bethlehem which is why the magi "fell down and worshipped him" Matt 2:11.

An icon of Jesus Christ is just that, a depiction of the revealed God. It does not contain God or is God, it's just a depiction of Our Lord and Savior. Ditto for the pictures of saints. The Church does not transfer our notion of God to anything other than God -- those paintings, statues are not God, do not possess divinity or virtue of their own right

Tradition does not contradict Scripture
1,361 posted on 02/27/2010 9:41:15 PM PST by Cronos (Philipp2:12, 2Cor5:10, Rom2:6, Matt7:21, Matt22:14, Lu12:42-46,John15:1-10,Rev2:4-5,Rev22:19)
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To: Cronos; wmfights
Mary is not a god or a goddess. She is considered a creature -- ask any Catholic from the simplest in the Philippines to the most erudite. She is a created being as attested by the doctrine as captured in Scripture and enunciated in the catechism.

Could have fooled me. Here. Mebbe some pictures:

This is *not* an idol:

This is *not* an idol:

This *IS* an idol:

This *IS* an idol:

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

I know, I know... It just looks like worship. Betcha Shadrach, Mishach, and Abednego could have used that kind of thinking. Those pinheads that stacked up idols in God's own Temple prolly used the same sort of reasoning... NO Way, Dude.

And yes, I get that it is only "veneration," which is honor, not worship... But that doesn't cut it neither... ALL Glory, ALL Laud, ALL Honor belongs to Jehovah, and to the Redeemer King.

*Sigh*... And we were having such a pleasant little argument...

1,371 posted on 02/28/2010 12:47:39 AM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit)
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To: Cronos
Just to reiterate another poster:

An icon of Jesus Christ is just that, a depiction of the revealed God. It does not contain God or is God, it's just a depiction of Our Lord and Savior. Ditto for the pictures of saints. The Church does not transfer our notion of God to anything other than God -- those paintings, statues are not God, do not possess divinity or virtue of their own right

It doesn't matter what you call it, what motive you assign to it, or whether you build it out of wood, stone or precious metal, God says, DON'T DO IT...

Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

How much more clear can you get than that...The only thing missing is God reaching down from heaven and slapping you up side the head to get His point across...

And then if you see one of these idols someone else built, God's got that covered as well...

Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

AND THEN, God indicates that whoever does these things does not love HIM...

Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Tradition does not contradict Scripture

Your tradition violates scripture by contradicting scripture...How can you keep repeating that nonsense???

1,373 posted on 02/28/2010 6:22:03 AM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Cronos; roamer_1
Mary is not a god or a goddess.

Yet you treat her as one and claim she has powers like a god.

It is just one example of how your church's tradition is leading RC's away from Christianity.

1,374 posted on 02/28/2010 6:35:51 AM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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