Posted on 02/19/2010 1:15:34 PM PST by SmithL
BACKGROUND:
Lutheran CORE, an umbrella group of organizations, led the fight against the ELCA proposal to roster gay and lesbian pastors last summer. When the vote went in favor of gay pastors, CORE announced it would have a splinter denomination ready for launch at its 2010 convocation in August.
THE PLAN:
The North American Lutheran Church (NALC) will be based on four "key attributes" that were listed as "Christ-centered, mission-driven, traditionally grounded and congregationally focused." Under the plan, CORE will not be a part of the denomination.
WHY THE CORE-NALC SEPARATION?
"CORE's membership extends beyond the ELCA to other Lutheran denominations," including Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ (LCMC) and the Oromo church, said the Rev. Mark Chavez, the organization's director. If CORE became the new denomination, those churches would drop out. In addition, CORE includes representatives from churches that likely will remain in the ELCA and doesn't want to exclude them, said the Rev. Paull Spring, chairman of the steering committee.
DUAL MEMBERSHIP:
The plan confirms that churches that are split on which denomination to join will be encouraged to belong to both the ELCA and NALC. The ELCA has said that it will not oppose dual membership.
HOW THINGS STAND:
A church wanting to leave the ELCA must hold two votes at least 90 days apart. To date, 220 congregations have held the first vote; 64 of those rejected the move.
(Excerpt) Read more at startribune.com ...
What are you smoking?
They only slightly disagree on what Papal Authority entails, and on the formulae for filioque, which is far too complicated to get into here.
What do you know about Eastern Orthodox?
Certainly confessional Lutherans reject these (if they are doctrines of the Catholic church I can’t say as I prefer to let Catholics speak as to what their doctrines are). As for the EO, I defer to them if there are any left since the caucus war.
From the 11000+ thread, if it is only slight disagreement, it sure was rousing and spirited. Unless you are Orthodox you might want to refrain from characterizing the disagreement from their point of view.
Take it up with Luthor... Martin Luther’s Devotion to Mary(Ecumenical)
The ELCA leadership is NOT promoting the Body of Christ in this latest round of antics.
I didn't say they were.
Wow... did you do that without peeking at my webpage?
No, I don’t mean the Catholic Church. I mean the ELCA, which states that the Bible is “the inspired, but not inerrant word of God.” Their downfall started with that ridiculous statement.
A personal opinion of brother Martin that isn't substantiated by Scripture so it isn't a part of the Lutheran Confessions. But I personally don't hold it against him since he was a Catholic, just an ingrained habit.
Yes, not too many other Christians talk about coming home much. Though I do know of some Baptist churches that have home comings.
A personal opinion of brother Martin that isn't substantiated by Scripture so it isn't a part of the Lutheran Confessions. But I personally don't hold it against him since he was a Catholic, just an ingrained habit.
I didn't say they were.
No, you said:
We do not strengthen the Body by lopping off parts when we disagree.
Seems like you were implying that they are of the Body of Christ.
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Jesus: “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits."
When a denomination "short measures and adulterates" the Word of God so deceitfully and corruptly that it puts its denominational imprimatur on sin and the practice of living in impenitent sin, it's aiding and abetting damnation, not the salvation Jesus offers to all who "repent and believe the Gospel."
You're kidding right? The worst of the corruptions, that pushed Luther into writing the 95 Theses were changed, yes, within 30 years of his death (and at the end of the Protestant Reformation), but myriads of other abuses up into the present day...that Luther and others didn't see until after 1517 (the date of the 95 Theses) have certainly not been reformed by Rome. Yes, changes for the better have been done, but please see some of the threads (such as this one on Mariology) on issues that totally drive Christians, who take the authority of the Bible seriously, crazy about Roman Catholicism...
Reform out prayers to dead saints, Mariolotry, the authority of the papacy and the Church being equal to holy Scripture, and revoke most of the Council of Trent canons....(which condemn Protestants to Hell), then maybe we can START talking about reunification.
By the way, most Protestants who’ve studied it, have relatively few troubles with what Church Catholic did the first 1000 years (the time that the things you mentioned occurred)—AND, all of us consider ourselves a part of that Catholic/universal Church; we even say so when we repeat the Apostles and Nicene Creeds.
However, slowly but surely, as the Church and her bishops got more and more enmeshed in wealth and worldly power, she got corrupted. Much of that power and corruption occurred since AD 1000, and even 1200, and changes since then are mostly what Luther and the other Reformers set about to reform—to bring the Church back to more a primitive purity.
The powers that be in Rome however at Luther’s time wanted none of it—and didn’t even bother to convene a meeting about reforms (Trent) until a year before Luther’s death (and Trent didn’t finish for over 20 years)—well after the Protestant Reformation was historically irrevocable.
Luther and others didn’t set out to split the Church—the obscenely corrupt, wealthy, and powerful popes they opposed saw to that—by completely stonewalling their attempts to reform—excommunicating them, and, as often as they could, persecuting and even executing them.
Just as the Eastern Orthodox sees Rome as having got off the wrong track in 1054, Protestant Christians see Rome having gotten off the wrong track of being the true Church Catholic (universal) some time after (or before) that. We see revisionist history being made up during the Middle Ages (such as the Church being built on Peter...and therefore the Bishop of Rome) to support Emperor-like,utterly corrupt/worldly men in the Papacy, and we see a Church that has built into her dogma a dogma that her dogma can never be wrong....(that little idea along doesn’t bode well for reforms....).
We also, by an large, believe in an INVISIBLE CHURCH...that is one made up of all true believers in Jesus, and known fully only to Him....regardless of their human Church denomination. That’s one reason why specific denominational affiliation is not as important to most Protestants than to Roman Catholics—as if you truly have faith in, are baptised in, and follow, Jesus, you’re already in the Church Catholic—whatever it’s earthly brand name.
People talk a lot on message boards, is this new?
Of course not.
This would make my great-grandfather,who was a Lutheran pastor and who baptized me,roll over in his grave.He was as strict as you could get.
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