Do Christians Need Only the Bible?

cna ^

[kosta50]

My mistake. I had the impression you prided yourself in being erudite, logical, brilliant etc.

I don't pride myself.

[eyedigress]

It’s been going on since the dawn of Christ. I meant it when I thought the works of C.S. Lewis should be a part of your read. He was an Atheist. (His works are not cheap) :^)

[eyedigress]

Alright, I was completely healed from death one day after my Mother passed. That’s enough for me. It’s called a message in a bottle.

[kosta50]

What makes C. S. Lewis special? I read one of his books and I wasn't impressed.

He was an Atheist And some people were believers and then became agnostics or atheists. What does that prove? I am not an atheist. To me it is just as presumptuous to assume that there is no God as there is to assume that there is one.

Alright, I was completely healed from death one day after my Mother passed

That's wonderful. I am not sure what you mean but whatever it is, it is important to you, understandably so.

[Quix]

Good.

Must be a misperception on my part.

[Quix]

Congrats.

BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.

[Quix]

What makes C. S. Lewis special? I read one of his books and I wasn’t impressed

#####

Then again, PERHAPS it wasn’t a misperception. God knows.

[1010RD]

I don’t know about your analysis here, Kosta. The loyal/faithful son is still gets all that his father has. The Prodigal has squandered his inheritance and only gets the basic welcome back feast and his father’s love, but nothing else.

If it is a metaphor for heaven it sounds like one of degrees, not equality. Go read it again and tell me what it says in the Greek, OK?

[Alamo-Girl]

It is an insult to God to demand that He prove Himself by doing miracles at one's command.

And he called the name of the place Massah, and Meribah, because of the chiding of the children of Israel, and because they tempted the LORD, saying, Is the LORD among us, or not? - Exodus 17:7

Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted [him] in Massah. - Deut 6:16

Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. - Matt 4:5-7

No one commands God. And no one can thwart His will.

God's Name is I AM.

[Quix]

Now, now, Dear Heart Angel-Gal . . .

If folks can’t DEMAND OF GOD

whenever they put a quarter of their haughty disdain and hostility into the Heavenly vending machine . . . demanding that ALMIGHTY GOD clean up HIS act according to THEIR prescription . . .

THEN

How will they ever be able to

whine, wail, complain, pontificate ad nauseum about how worthless an ALMIGHTY GOD was who obeyed their commands! ???

Such folks are artists at DAMNED IF ONE DOES AND DAMNED IF ONE DOESN’T.

They must have terminal angst because God refuses to play that game.

[Alamo-Girl]

Indeed, dear brother in Christ!

And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and [in] the bond of iniquity.

Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me. - Acts 8:18-24

To God be the glory, not man, never man!

[1010RD]

She’s right on this one, Kosta. Faith is critical and it precedes the miracle. Although in the case of Moses was it his faith that allowed the miracles to happen, because Israel certainly didn’t have any faith.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for your encouragement, dear 1010RD!

I would not say that Moses' faith allowed the miracles, i.e. was required. God's will concerning Israel could not be thwarted.

And Moses said unto the LORD, O my Lord, I [am] not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant: but I [am] slow of speech, and of a slow tongue.

And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD? Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt say.

And he said, O my Lord, send, I pray thee, by the hand [of him whom] thou wilt send.

And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Moses, and he said, [Is] not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart. And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do.

And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, [even] he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.

And thou shalt take this rod in thine hand, wherewith thou shalt do signs. - Exodus 4:10-17

In the above passage, by Moses' lack of faith, Israel was stuck with a priesthood. Aaron's lack of faith in the golden calf incident also applies, but by then Moses' faith had increased but too late to avert a priesthood (they could have just had a prophet.) Israel also later, for lack of faith, insisted on an earthy King...

God's will concerning Israel was not thwarted by their lack of faith.

Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: - Isaiah 46:9-10

To God be the glory, not man, never man!

[1010RD]

In the above passage, by Moses' lack of faith, Israel was stuck with a priesthood. Aaron's lack of faith in the golden calf incident also applies, but by then Moses' faith had increased but too late to avert a priesthood (they could have just had a prophet.) Israel also later, for lack of faith, insisted on an earthy King...

I do like the typo of earthy (archaic for worldly). Can you expound on the above? What do you mean stuck with a priesthood? Also, Aaron started the miracles in Egypt, stumbled (maybe? Some scholars argue that the calf was a symbol of Yahweh) at Sinai, but then is washed and anointed at the tabernacle and granted a priesthood. What are you getting at?

[kosta50]

It is an insult to God to demand that He prove Himself by doing miracles at one's command

That is not the issue, AG. The Bible clearly says that believers should test their faith. Obviously, testing one's faith is not seen as testing God. You just seem to choose to ignore those verses.

Which basically brings us back to my original (unanswered) question: how does one know he or she has "sufficient" faith? The question is justified, imo, because the Bible also says that not all who say "Lord, Lord" have what it takes.

[Quix]

INDEED.

BLESSED BE THE WORD OF THE LORD.

[kosta50]

She’s right on this one, Kosta

Then maybe you can explain the verses that clearly call for one to test his faith, which she ignores.

[boatbums]

I had a boss one time who was known to give nebulous assignments. He really didn't know what he wanted most of the time and we would come up with numerous ideas and presentations just to have him turn each one down and we'd go back and start all over. He was unable to articulate what he was really looking for. We called it IKIWISI - I'll Know It When I See It.

Perhaps, in all these hundreds of posts, your answer to "How do you know your faith is sufficient?", has been there. But the right combination of words, concepts, "proofs" or whatever hasn't been hit on yet to satisfy what I sincerely hope is a genuine question.

I do think there is a huge difference in testing God like satan did Jesus, or when Gideon didn't quite believe God's promise and set up silly tests with fleece, or when Moses vexed God and when we grow in our faith by trusting what God has to say and "stepping out in faith".

I'll give you an example that caused a huge growth in faith for me (they are many, many more examples - but I don't want to take up time). When I was in second year of college, I was working my way through and paying for everything myself. I had no car. The job I had paid on Thursdays, it was Tuesday and I had $2 in my pocket. On Tuesdays, during chapel, there was a collection taken for students who wanted to help in the ministry of the college. I took a step of faith, remembering God's promise to trust him to provide. I gave $1 - half of what I had (this was back in the early '70s - so money was worth more). This left me with $1.00. I went to the cafeteria for lunch - spending 80 cents, which left me with 20 cents for bus fare TO work. But no money for bus fare back, dinner, etc. for two more days.

I just felt this strength and trust that God was going to honor this step of faith in one way or another and that I did not have to worry. I went to my dorm room to change for work and on the way out to the bus stop, I noticed the mail had come in early that day. I had a few minutes, so I decided to check. Well inside was a card from my Mom with a check for $20.00. No birthday, no special occasion, just Hi, hope you're doing well!

So was this not of God? Mom had sent that card and check days earlier, yet it came on just the day I needed it on just the day I stepped out in faith to trust God at his word. That day changed something in me. And my faith continued to grow as each trial, doubt, victory came into my life.

The faith God wants of us is never enough, but it will always be sufficient and each time we take another step he gives us a portion more.

[1010RD]

Then maybe you can explain the verses that clearly call for one to test his faith

Well, you're right on that. Can it be that we test our faith by works, that is by living it?

[YHAOS]

“So I guess I see this story somewhat differntly than some others may. It gives me hope and encouragement and in no way, I think, excuses or looks lightly on sin. It is a story of grace.”

Of course you see the story somewhat differently. You’re open to receiving the spirit of The Word, as some others seem not to be. This is not to mean that you must uncritically accept everything you see or hear. It does mean that you are willing to try to accept The Word with understanding and not be instantly absorbed by thoughts of deconstruction, intending to indulge in every effort to do nothing except to construe The Word in the worst light possible.

We are all mindful (as indeed we should be) of the injunction to give witness. There is, I would suggest however, a limit to giving witness, and we are clued into that limit by the knowledge that Free Will likewise comes from God. Thus it is that the Judeo-Christian tradition has come to understand, as many others have not, that Free Will limits our witness to mere persuasion, and that we must otherwise tolerate the malice of contrived misunderstanding.