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To: Cronos

Your syllogisms are wanting. Humans consist of body, soul and spirit, (1Ths. 5:23) and mothers ontologically pass on humanity, however God is most essentially a spirit, (Jn. 4:24) which by definition, has not flesh and bones (Lk. 24:39) - despite what the LDS propagates (and who also believe in a heavenly mother). While Jesus was made flesh, in which the two natures are understood to be somehow commingled (in the mystery of the incarnation), yet what Mary contributed to Christ was not Divinity, but humanity. The difference is that of being a vessel thru which God was made flesh, versus ontologically being the mother of God, which term is further problematic as God is one.

While Catholicism claims to make this distinction, its incessant uncritical use of the term, in contrast to the Biblical manner, along with its other exaltations of Mary above that which is written, is the problem.


7,880 posted on 02/01/2010 7:26:08 AM PST by daniel1212 (Pro 25:13 As the cold of snow in the time of harvest, so is a faithful messenger [frozen chosen])
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To: daniel1212
How are the definitions wanting?

you said Humans consist of body, soul and spirit, (1Ths. 5:23) and mothers ontologically pass on humanity, however God is most essentially a spirit, (Jn. 4:24) which by definition, has not flesh and bones (Lk. 24:39).

Yup, God the Father is not a human being. However, as you say : While Jesus was made flesh, in which the two natures are understood to be somehow commingled (in the mystery of the incarnation), yet what Mary contributed to Christ was not Divinity, but humanity.

You say that Jesus was God made flesh in which God and Man commingled. You agree with Church teachings on that. "Mary contributed to Christ's humanity, not His Divinity" -- again, you agree with Church teachings.

The difference is that of being a vessel thru which God was made flesh, versus ontologically being the mother of God, which term is further problematic as God is one.

Ontologically = "relating to essence or the nature of being.". You just said that Mary contributed to Christ's humanity. That was His Nature along with His divine nature. Hence Mary, the created being was the creature that gave birth to The Christ, she was the Theotokos -- the Mother of God -- and more importantly, the term defines that God came down as man, wholly man, wholly God.

7,884 posted on 02/01/2010 7:44:50 AM PST by Cronos (Philipp2:12, 2Cor5:10, Rom2:6, Matt7:21, Matt22:14, Lu12:42-46,John15:1-10,Rev2:4-5,Rev22:19)
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To: daniel1212
How are the definitions wanting?

you said Humans consist of body, soul and spirit, (1Ths. 5:23) and mothers ontologically pass on humanity, however God is most essentially a spirit, (Jn. 4:24) which by definition, has not flesh and bones (Lk. 24:39).

Yup, God the Father is not a human being. However, as you say : While Jesus was made flesh, in which the two natures are understood to be somehow commingled (in the mystery of the incarnation), yet what Mary contributed to Christ was not Divinity, but humanity.

You say that Jesus was God made flesh in which God and Man commingled. You agree with Church teachings on that. "Mary contributed to Christ's humanity, not His Divinity" -- again, you agree with Church teachings.

The difference is that of being a vessel thru which God was made flesh, versus ontologically being the mother of God, which term is further problematic as God is one.

Ontologically = "relating to essence or the nature of being.". You just said that Mary contributed to Christ's humanity. That was His Nature along with His divine nature. Hence Mary, the created being was the creature that gave birth to The Christ, she was the Theotokos -- the Mother of God -- and more importantly, the term defines that God came down as man, wholly man, wholly God.

While Catholicism claims to make this distinction,

The Church not only claims this distinction, it is our dogma, our basic theology -- NEVER in 2000 years has anyone even hinted that they believe Mary to be in any way divine. We reiterate that she was a created being. Do you have anything from the Catechism which states otherwise?

its incessant uncritical use of the term, in contrast to the Biblical manner,

You say that Mother of God is in contrast to Biblical manner, yet in Luke 1:23, Elizabeth calls Mary, Mother of her Lord.

How is the term Mother in any way a creator -- did not your Mother bear you and not create your soul?

The Church's terminology exalts GOD. By using the term Theotokos, Mother of GOD, we emphasise that God is one and yet Jesus was 100% man and 100% God in one "person".

7,885 posted on 02/01/2010 7:49:52 AM PST by Cronos (Philipp2:12, 2Cor5:10, Rom2:6, Matt7:21, Matt22:14, Lu12:42-46,John15:1-10,Rev2:4-5,Rev22:19)
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To: daniel1212
While Catholicism claims to make this distinction,...

(But of course they're lying.)

So we make the distinction, and it's only a "claim?" So even if we agree with you we're still wrong?

It seems silly to me.

7,905 posted on 02/01/2010 8:56:32 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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