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To: RnMomof7; stfassisi; Forest Keeper; Cronos; MarkBsnr; Mad Dawg

“Could God made man in a way he would not choose to sin?”

God did. Adam didn’t HAVE to sin. Adam chose to sin, but it wasn’t inevitable. God knew what would happen, but he didn’t cause it. God doesn’t cause evil.

“If there was no sin you would have no way to know God is Holy and know His grace and mercy.. it is sin that allows man to see that”

Sounds like the old ‘we need darkness to know what light is’ argument. I’m not buying. Goodness doesn’t need evil.

“God ordained the cross before the foundation of the earth was laid, Christ did kill Himself...”

The death of Jesus was God’s answer to what he knew would happen. “22”Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— 23this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.”

Adam’s sin didn’t surprise God, and God created man anyways. It suited his purpose. But God didn’t force man to fall. It was a fall, not a shove.

“So Gods actions are dependent on ours? Who is god in that situation?”

What does scripture say?

12 “And you, son of man, say to your people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him when he transgresses, and as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall by it when he turns from his wickedness, and the righteous shall not be able to live by his righteousness when he sins. 13Though I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, yet if he trusts in his righteousness and does injustice, none of his righteous deeds shall be remembered, but in his injustice that he has done he shall die. 14Again, though I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ yet if he turns from his sin and does what is just and right, 15if the wicked restores the pledge, gives back what he has taken by robbery, and walks in the statutes of life, not doing injustice, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 16 None of the sins that he has committed shall be remembered against him. He has done what is just and right; he shall surely live.

17”Yet your people say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just,’ when it is their own way that is not just. 18 When the righteous turns from his righteousness and does injustice, he shall die for it. 19And when the wicked turns from his wickedness and does what is just and right, he shall live by this. 20Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ O house of Israel, I will judge each of you according to his ways.” - Ez 33

God isn’t the one who changes. But when we change, his actions with respect to us remain true to who he is, and so the outcome we experience changes.


7,779 posted on 01/31/2010 7:50:46 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mr Rogers
God did. Adam didn’t HAVE to sin. Adam chose to sin, but it wasn’t inevitable. God knew what would happen, but he didn’t cause it. God doesn’t cause evil.

Are you saying that God did not know Adam was going to sin?

I asked could not God have made man with a nature that would always choose not to sin?

7,862 posted on 02/01/2010 3:51:58 AM PST by RnMomof7 (Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen.)
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