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To: xzins; blue-duncan; HarleyD; P-Marlowe
it was foreknown and then that creation was set in motion.

Does God merely "know" who men are and what they will do or are men created to differ by God who made them as they are and gave them all they have, including the gift of faith and a heart of flesh to receive that faith and a renewed mind to believe and live that faith?

"Foreknow" in Scripture here doesn't mean a simple awareness of being or future actions. It means to create in love and imbue with all that exists within that creation.

I know you don't like long posts. But if you find some time, x, I hope you read the following to see if you find it persuasive.

GOD'S FOREKNOWLEDGE

...The real question then is "what exactly does it mean for God to foreknow somebody?"

To gain a correct biblical definition of this word "foreknew" (in Romans 8:29), rather than assume its meaning (which is what many do), we need to do some homework and study. When we do this, we find that the word does not merely mean to know future actions beforehand. It has a much more precise meaning. The word "foreknew" (Greek: proginosko) in Romans 8:29 is a verb rather than a noun. It is an action word, and as the text informs us, it is something done by God.

What exactly does God do then? The text says "those whom He foreknew..." But again, what exactly does this mean?

We find the answer to this question by going to passages of scripture that have God as the subject of the verbal form, as here in this passage. This is because passages that have humans as the subject would differ substantially in their meaning from the ones where God is the subject, because, I am sure we will all agree, we as creatures "know" things on a very different basis to the way God does.

When we do this, here's what we find.

The verb proginosko is used three times in the New Testament with God as the subject - here in Romans 8:29, then also in Romans 11:2, and lastly in 1 Peter 1:20. This proves to be significant when we ask the question "what, or who is foreknown by God?"

In Romans 8:29, the direct object of the verb is a pronoun that refers back to the called of the previous verse (v. 28). In Romans 11:2 the object the verb is referring to is "His people," and in 1 Peter 1:20, the object is Jesus Christ Himself.

Each reference then portrays God as foreknowing persons rather than actions. 1 Peter 1:20 says, "For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you." When God foreknew Christ, did that mean that God simply knew that Jesus would make correct decisions or have faith in His Father? Hardly! It speaks of the Father's personal intimacy and affection for His beloved Son...


7,037 posted on 01/29/2010 10:03:45 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; xzins; blue-duncan; HarleyD; P-Marlowe
Each reference then portrays God as foreknowing persons rather than actions.

What then is a "person"?

Is it not the sum total of his entire being: spirit, soul, body, thoughts, actions...?

If God chose you because he knew you as a person, then what did he know? Is not God's choice a determinate act?

And if it was a determinate act, then was there some deliberative thought process that went into that election?

Or was it simply random, like a computer picking numbers for the lottery?

7,039 posted on 01/29/2010 10:37:59 AM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Ah, we got a strange post HERE by you where she you that "From this Roman Catholic website comes a new twist in "Who's on the Crucifix Today? --> the "Roman Catholic website" is http://www.crystalinks.com/, a UFO-sighting website. The lady who owns it is a Jewish psychic (she will do a psychic reading for you over the phone for $150 prepaid) from Brooklyn who believes that she has been “beamed up” into a UFO and orbitted the Earth. She converses every day with an “entity” she calls “Z”

Is this and random blogspots, the sum of the arguments by OPC
7,047 posted on 01/29/2010 11:39:47 AM PST by Cronos (Philipp2:12, 2Cor5:10, Rom2:6, Matt7:21, Matt22:14, Lu12:42-46,John15:1-10,Rev2:4-5,Rev22:19)
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