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To: Mad Dawg; HarleyD
Okay Sola Scripturites: Where does the word "atone" appear in the NT, what is the Greek (hilasmos?) and what does it mean? What does the KPR stem mean in Hebrew. Is "Atone" really the best translation - since it is, after all a made up word.

Rom 3:25 — Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.

1Jo 4:10 — Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins.Transliteration hilasmos
Part of Speech masculine noun Outline of Biblical Usage
1) an appeasing, propitiating
2) the means of appeasing, a propitiation

Hint: Love ***covers*** a multitude of sins. (That's in the Bible, kids.) Calypso anyone? Apo-calypso?

The blood of the sacrifices in the OT covered the sin/ atoned for the sin of the man..but that did not cover future sin ..He had to keep going back and REOFFERING sacrifices to cover his sin.. BUT we have a better high Priest

Hbr 10:12 — But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Hbr 10:14 — For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Jud 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, [and] called:

6,570 posted on 01/26/2010 8:04:08 AM PST by RnMomof7 (Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen.)
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To: RnMomof7
"propitiation" is too restrictive a translation for hilasmos.

As for the rest I didn't ask for Scriptures about the CONCEPT of Christ restoring unity between the redeemed and God. The complaint against the catechism seemed to be about the choice of words. So to point out how totally off the wall the complaints were, I asked for the use of THE WORD atonement in the Bible.

My complaint is this over-reaching grabbing at a non-existent andimpossilbe clarity about what is a mystery.

If I recall correctly, in the LXX hilasmos translates the KPR words of the hebrew Testament. KPR really does have a root meaning o 'cover" which I'd guess is why Peter uses a kalyps word -(apo+calypse is pretty much UN + VEIL, kalypse is veil, so by implication a covering.

THe KPR stem gets into Arabic as the root of the word Kaffir - infidel, the idea seems to be the infidel covers the true doctrine.

SO, when we get to "covering" as the root concept behind what is later called "atonement" we realize that one image, one word isn't gonna get it. The thing is too big. We can only look for an array of images to hope to be able to touch it, much less grasp it.

And part of that is understanding what it means for us to be NOT at-oned with God.

So the discourse grows as the insight which only the atoning love ;-) of Christ can give is developed.

6,573 posted on 01/26/2010 8:36:15 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: RnMomof7; HarleyD; Quix
I can't believe some Roman Catholics are actually arguing against the historic, orthodox Christian doctrine of Jesus Christ's atonement for the sins of His flock.

Oh, wait. Yes, I can.

6,696 posted on 01/26/2010 10:51:02 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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