Replies

Let's be clear about the story as Quix told it. It was not his wish, or his threat. He "observed" or "reported"what, as he thinks of it, the Spirit told him.

If you're going to mug Quix, be fair, scrupulously fair.

This was not a wish fulfillment thing. Quix, as he reported it, didn't say he wanted the guy to croak. He said that "in the Spirit" he uttered that the guy would cease to be interfering with their stuff if he didn't get his act together and then change it.

Look, I hate this stuff. BUT I have the gift/curse (choose one) of second sight. My grandmother had it, and my daughter has it, though she doesn't understand it yet.

Let me report just this: The alleged "gift" is not even something you're thinking about, certainly not desiring. It's like a camera shutter opens, or a button is pushed, and you know and you speak. That's it. I can't make it happen, I don't even think about it, until it happens. I certainly don't think it makes me special or indicates that I am special. EXCEPT that in that I am a classically edumicated innerleckshual, it is awkward to have this inexplicable thing happen to me. Last damn this I want. What I want is something like being the worlds foremost Dante scholar, or just to be a good disciple of my Lord. But what I have is, "And now this word from the future; [some stuff I don't understand, and don't believe only it "comes true" in a weekend or a year.]

So before you entirely mug Quix, read what he initially wrote carefully. We Catholics acknowledge that folks like Quix are "brethren," albeit "separated." So we need to be open to Spiritual graces, some of which may seem exotic, foreign, and implausible to us.

Having pled for Quix now I will say, yeah, they don't even get when they are doing it, but, yeah, just as the New Yorker readers will mock Baptist and Pentecostalists, without even seeing how parochial and provincial they are, so Baptist and Pentecostalists will mock us for pretty much the same reasons.

The Sacred Heart of Jesus beats not only for us, but for all His children, for all those for whom He died. We Catholics must understand that GOd may have reserved some gift for the separated brethren, just as much as they MUST understand that the readily mockable "Magicsterical" really does teach the truth that not only sets one free but fills one heart with soothing and energizing delight.

Im' thinking the more we lead with mockery and contempt, the longer it will take for them to see that the "edifice" which they mock is really a kind of intriguing and rambling building in which not only are preserved wonderful chestnuts from the past, but also are nursed vigorous saplings for the near future.

We have a treasure. We are called to share it. If those to whom we offer it mock it, we will not change their minds by abusing them. When they see how our treasure has filled our minds with clarity and our hearts with love, then maybe, but not until then, they will ask to be fed with the bread we eat.

Let me report just this: The alleged “gift” is not even something you’re thinking about, certainly not desiring. It’s like a camera shutter opens, or a button is pushed, and you know and you speak. That’s it. I can’t make it happen, I don’t even think about it, until it happens. I certainly don’t think it makes me special or indicates that I am special. EXCEPT that in that I am a classically edumicated innerleckshual, it is awkward to have this inexplicable thing happen to me. Last damn this I want. What I want is something like being the worlds foremost Dante scholar, or just to be a good disciple of my Lord. But what I have is, “And now this word from the future; [some stuff I don’t understand, and don’t believe only it “comes true” in a weekend or a year.]

So before you entirely mug Quix, read what he initially wrote carefully. We Catholics acknowledge that folks like Quix are “brethren,” albeit “separated.” So we need to be open to Spiritual graces, some of which may seem exotic, foreign, and implausible to us.

Having pled for Quix now I will say, yeah, they don’t even get when they are doing it, but, yeah, just as the New Yorker readers will mock Baptist and Pentecostalists, without even seeing how parochial and provincial they are, so Baptist and Pentecostalists will mock us for pretty much the same reasons.

##############

GOODNESS! I didn’t realize it was you writing for a good bit into it—maybe I even had to check the name.

Interlekshul was a bit of a clue, though.

LOL.

Very well put, Bro.

I wish to note also, perhaps shockingly . . . that I have SOME respect for a body of earnest believers working out of good hearts toward distilling complex issues into a sense of The Lord about them. And, I suspect that even the magicsterical has done that on occasion.

However, I utterly reject the notion that such a body in the RC/Vatican camp or the So Bap camp or the A of God camp or any other camp is going to be by definition or presumed history or any other set of contingencies chronically anointed and thoroughly right by definition—meeting in, meeting out; month in, month out; year in year out; decade in decade out; century in, century out. Just T’ain’t so.

And, sorry, but I shall likely continue to use magicsterical. I believe it is a very important term because of the deeply entrenched mind-set that any bureaucratic political group in any Christian or any other context can be pure and infallible in any sense of the word flawlessly year in and year out over centuries or decades or even years. I find that notion an absurd UnBiblical heretical notion and a deception from hell.

I believe that kind of deception not only deserves but requires, even demands a very stark and emphatic signal that such a notion is absurdly unBiblical—indeed—magic-sterical.

I realize that the Vatican Affiliates et al will take particular offense because I derived the term from their magisterium. However, even when I derived the term I believed it to be an excellent example of not only the Vatican group but all similar groups.

It is an emphatic insistance that all individuals and groups who are inclined to take themselves too seriously—OUGHT NOT TO DO SO UNDER PAIN OF SERIOUS SPIRITUAL HAZARD.

Anyway—Greatly appreciate your wise discernment and commentary. LUBBRO.

Before I trundle off to bed . . . I want to comment a bit more on this excellent paragraph:

Let me report just this: The alleged "gift" is not even something you're thinking about, certainly not desiring.

I have to say mostly but not 100% yes on that score. I have asked repeatedly for all God has for me in terms of spiritual gifts . . . all of Holy Spirit He will grace me with etc. repeatedly. On the other hand, such gifts tend to come with requirements and . . . challenges which leave one feeling more than occasionally--GOODNESS! WHAT DID I GET MYSELF INTO! Yet, God's grace is always sufficient and the benefits to HIS KINGDOM and to hurting people are so evident and obvious . . . the joy is rich and the satisfaction is rich regardless of the hassles. Has that been true in your experience?

It's like a camera shutter opens, or a button is pushed, and you know and you speak. That's it.

INDEED. That's an excellent description.

I can't make it happen, I don't even think about it, until it happens.

There's plenty of truth to that. I CERTAINLY CANNOT MAKE it happen at all. And trying to virtually guarantees nothing will happen! Holy Spirit blows where HE wants. However, on occasion, I can think about it. Though for me, thinking about it can often just muddy the water and hinder "hearing" Holy Spirit clearly. It works best . . . well . . . usually I'll have a word or a phrase or maybe a simple sentence that's pressing increasingly "loudly" in my spirit for expression in a given situation to a given individual, group, congregation.

And I'm increasingly trying to insure that I ask and wait on God for a fitting opening. If it's 1:1 with an individual, I may just immediately ask if I may share an impression I'm having that I think may be from The Lord. When I finish, I'll instruct them to take it to Scripture and to The Lord in prayer AND ASK HIM WHAT, IF ANYTHING, THE LORD would have them take to heart of what I've said.

In any case, if I have a word or a phrase or a sentence to start with, if I'll begin by sharing that, the rest will come like a flowing stream that's been temporarily dammed up. And when there's no more flow, no more words coming, I usually, now, have the good sense to stop.

Many times in such situations, I'll have a feeling or an impression that is not articulated. It's not quite a feeling but it's not NOT a feeling either. It's much more than a feeling. Yet not with words attached. So, I'll usually pray in tongues and wait a bit for articulation to come. I may share several ways of articulating it until the best fit comes out.

As a psychologist, that's a fun thing to kind of stand outside myself and watch. Some people claim one can't have thoughts without words. That experience shows me that's not necessarily so.

I think it was John Wimber who advocated strongly ministering with one's eyes open watching the recipient . . . and when it was clear God was touching the person at the mention of a specific thing--wait on The Lord or tune in more intensely along that line for whatever more The Lord might have to share along that line. I've found that fruitful, too.

I'm not trying to assume at all that we have identical giftings. God seems to love to do things differently with each of us though some are quite similar.

I certainly don't think it makes me special or indicates that I am special.

ABSOLUTELY INDEED. Except that each of us is SPECIAL in His eyes. And, some He blesses/challenges with rather unique giftings . . . seemingly off the wall enough or out of conventional standards enough just to jangle the starchy and prissy and knock them enough katty wumpus that Holy Spirit can finally 'leak into' the cracks in their starchy-ness. However, arrogance about the gift tends to chase away the anointing rather quickly. Holding a dry empty bag of such an experience or gifting is truly horrific of major proportions. One does NOT want to go there again!

EXCEPT that in that I am a classically edumicated innerleckshual, it is awkward to have this inexplicable thing happen to me. Last damn this I want.

I can identify with the feelings, for sure. However, having said to HIM that I want all He will give me of His Spirit and His Spirit's giftings, I'm not about to say such a thing. And, I really DO WANT ALL HE has for me--even challenging giftings that can be . . . problematic and challenging more than occasionally.

What I want is something like being the worlds foremost Dante scholar, or just to be a good disciple of my Lord. But what I have is, "And now this word from the future; [some stuff I don't understand, and don't believe only it "comes true" in a weekend or a year.]

INDEED. I can understand those feelings quite well. I think I've come to a place of peace about such giftings AS LONG AS I CAN BE CONFIDENT THE LORD IS INVOLVED. And most of the time WHEN the press in my spirit is above a certain degree--that's no problem. When it's of a lower intensity, that's an agonizing challenge to me. Some of the lower intensity stuff has still been fully Him and He has still confirmed it in multiple ways. Yet, not 100% of the time in all respects. I hate that.

And certainly I'm not at all in charge of the intensity of Holy Spirit's expressions or presses within me. I can pay better attention from one situation to the next depending. But that doesn't change Holy Spirit's intensity. I can wait on Him and pray and ask Him to make things clearer. Often that helps.

Anyway, that's my experience of such things. Sure appreciate your sharing that. LUBBRO.