[Mr Rogers]

“There are in reality only two types of religious thought. There is the religion of faith, and there is the religion of works...while that which has been known as Arminianism has been diluted to a dangerous degree by the religion of works and that it is therefore an inconsistent and unstable form of Christianity.”

False dilemma. For I have never said or suggested we are saved by works, UNLESS you call believing work. If believing is considered work, then Jesus explicitly taught that God requires ‘work’. Calvin & I both chalk John 6 up to sarcasm on the part of Jesus - the Jews asked him what work God required, and he replied, in effect, “Work You want WORK! OK, here is the ‘work’ required - believe in the one God has sent!”

““The basic principle of Calvinism is the sovereignty of God.”

Nope. The basic principle of Calvinism is the deceitfulness of God. It teaches that God, throughout scripture, over hundreds of passages, tells men to repent - while specifically preventing them from doing so. It calls Jesus a liar, for Jesus said “God so loved the world”, not “God so loved the elect”.

““All of this brings out the basic principle of the Reformed Faith - the sovereignty of God. God created this world in which we find ourselves, He owns it, and He is running it according to His own sovereign good pleasure.”

Nope. PD teaches that man - specifically the PDers - get to tell God what His purpose is, and He dare not do otherwise. The entire sovereignty crock assumes first that you get to define the will of God, and you get to do so apart from scripture, which explicitly says, “3This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” - 1 Tim 2

You presume to tell God that when He says “world”, He MUST mean “elect”, and was just mistaken. PD takes God far more lightly than Armenian did.

It is simply nonsense to suggest that PDers alone know the will of God, and that Jesus did not. Basic scripture interpretation - use the hundred obvious to enlighten the 3 obscure. But Calvin used the 3 obscure to cast into darkness the 100 obvious. Although, to give credit where due, Calvin was more accepting of scripture than his followers...

[Dr. Eckleburg]

The basic principle of Calvinism is the deceitfulness of God

Look, Mr. Rogers, maybe you've been hanging out with the Romanists too long because you're starting to sound like them in more ways than one.

Your posts are becoming increasingly dogmatic , sarcastic, redundant, looong, contradictory and non-responsive.

I give you five paragraphs about the sovereignty of God, a half dozen examples from Scripture, and link you to A.A. Pink's masterwork, "The Sovereignty of God." Your response is not to read it; apparently not even to glance at it. Instead you tell me to summarize it for you.

Hmmm... ok...

God is in control; not you. He always has been and He always will be. You have never been nor will you ever be.

And that is a very good thing for you just like it is for all who have been given true faith in Christ, for we are "His workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." (Eph. 2:10.)

Esquirette pointed out that even our faith is a work made possible by God, as are all good things in us and by us. But you wrote...

"I have never said or suggested we are saved by works, UNLESS you call believing work"

Here Paul sets you straight by agreeing with esquirette...

"Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father" -- 1 Thess. 1:3

PD teaches that man - specifically the PDers - get to tell God what His purpose is, and He dare not do otherwise. The entire sovereignty crock assumes first that you get to define the will of God, and you get to do so apart from scripture

PD? As in FW?

"Sovereignty crock???"

Calvinists don't define the will of God; God does, regardless whether men know that or not.

"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ" -- 2 Thess. 2:13-14

---

"And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand." -- Luke 8:10 

Did you get that in 2 Thess. 2? "Chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and (through) belief of the truth."

Men don't sanctify themselves, nor do they give themselves faith nor the ability to believe. Men must first be born again by God.

And that's His call. Faith is the instrument God uses to bring His own to Him. "Saved by grace through faith." Grace saves.

We have not chosen Him; He has chosen us. If you think it was your idea, tell it to Him.

There were only three Arminians I've known on this forum who spoke as negatively as you about Calvinism. Two are now Calvinists and one got kicked off the forum.

May God utilize His "sovereignty crock" to lead you to the better fate.

[Cronos]

For I have never said or suggested we are saved by works,

That's correct, you haven't. And that, Pelagian view is not held by any one of us: whether Baptists or Catholics or Orthodox or Lutherans or Evangelicals or others. None of us believe we can save ourselves.

[Cronos]

Esq: ““The basic principle of Calvinism is the sovereignty of God.”

Mr Rogers: Nope. The basic principle of Calvinism is the deceitfulness of God. It teaches that God, throughout scripture, over hundreds of passages, tells men to repent - while specifically preventing them from doing so. It calls Jesus a liar, for Jesus said “God so loved the world”, not “God so loved the elect”.

Well put. There is an inherent illogicality to it all and it also flies in the idea of a loving God, which is what we have.