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To: Cronos; Forest Keeper
Forest Keeper: It is simply impossible to worship the God of Abraham while denying Christ.

Chronos: A flaw in your argument -- Jews DO that and we can't deny that they worship the God of Abraham.

FK is correct on this one. Even the Jewish mechanism of worshiping God requires this. Consider how any priest must cleanse themselves prior to entering the temple to have fellowship with God, to worship Him. First there would be a burnt offering, pointing the object of our faith in the sacrifice being made to God for cleansing, pointing to Christ. Next they would wash themselves at the Bronze Laver, which acted as a mirror, washing part of their body while looking at themselves before God. This is also synonymous to the act of confession after we turn our face back to Him (repentance) in that we look at ourselves and confess our sins by washing them by what He has provided, that Perfect Sacrifice.

No Jew could enter into the Holy Place prior to this action, just as no believer in the Church Age is able to have fellowship with God without looking first through faith in Christ and His sacrifice on the Cross.

2,452 posted on 01/12/2010 11:57:50 PM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Cvengr

true, but narrowly speaking, the Jews DO worship the God of Abraham and they DO deny Christ.


2,482 posted on 01/13/2010 4:03:46 AM PST by Cronos (Philipp2:12, 2Cor5:10, Rom2:6, Matt7:21, Matt22:14, Lu12:42-46,John15:1-10,Rev2:4-5,Rev22:19)
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To: Cvengr; Cronos; Mad Dawg; boatbums; annalex
FK: It is simply impossible to worship the God of Abraham while denying Christ.

Cronos: A flaw in your argument -- Jews DO that and we can't deny that they worship the God of Abraham.

Cvengr: FK is correct on this one. Even the Jewish mechanism of worshiping God requires this. Consider how any priest must cleanse themselves prior to entering the temple to have fellowship with God, to worship Him. First there would be a burnt offering, pointing the object of our faith in the sacrifice being made to God for cleansing, pointing to Christ. ....

Thanks, and your analysis is spot on. I was just reading about the construction of the original Tabernacle and the note in my study Bible said: "... the tabernacle was a provisional symbol, rather than the full reality, of God's dwelling with man. It symbolized the heavenly temple of God:"

Heb. 8:1-6 : 1 The point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2 and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by man. 3 Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer. 4 If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already men who offer the gifts prescribed by the law. 5 They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” 6 But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises. ...

Heb. 9:1-15 : 1 Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary. 2 A tabernacle was set up. In its first room were the lampstand, the table and the consecrated bread; this was called the Holy Place. 3 Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place, 4 which had the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant. This ark contained the gold jar of manna, Aaron’s staff that had budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant. 5 Above the ark were the cherubim of the Glory, overshadowing the atonement cover. But we cannot discuss these things in detail now.

6 When everything had been arranged like this, the priests entered regularly into the outer room to carry on their ministry. 7 But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still standing. 9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

11 When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! 15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

This pointed forward to the dwelling of God with man in the person of Jesus Christ (John 1:14 "dwelt among us"). There are tons of examples like this in the OT. Everything pointed to Christ. The God of Abraham is absolutely inseparable from Christ.

3,823 posted on 01/16/2010 1:16:30 PM PST by Forest Keeper ((It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.))
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