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To: Forest Keeper
Both Calvinists and Arminians believe in a loving God, but we disagree on some of His methods and directions of expressing that love

And you can't have a loving God who loves only some of His children and hates the others so much that he determined before time that the latter would go to hell. Also, since there is no free will according to Calvin, the actions that the latter group DID, that merited a go-to hell were all predetermined by God, even the original fall from grace was predetermined by the Calvingod.
1,651 posted on 01/11/2010 4:46:38 AM PST by Cronos (Philipp2:12, 2Cor5:10, Rom2:6, Matt7:21, Matt22:14, Lu12:42-46,John15:1-10,Rev2:4-5,Rev22:19)
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To: Cronos; Mr Rogers; Dr. Eckleburg; boatbums
FK: Both Calvinists and Arminians believe in a loving God, but we disagree on some of His methods and directions of expressing that love.

And you can't have a loving God who loves only some of His children and hates the others so much that he determined before time that the latter would go to hell.

Well, I think the Bible is clear that there are different kinds and levels of love, both among humans and from God. For example, God loves all of mankind in that He provides rain to all. However, He does not love all mankind to the point of saving all of them given that He has the full power and right to do so. He has the right and justification to send all of us to hell or to save all of us, or any combination in between. It is clear what He has chosen and one way to express that choice is in terms of His love. He loved some so much that He single-handedly provided for and accomplished their salvation.

Others explain God's choice (above) in terms of God's love by saying that God loved all equally in giving all a chance for salvation, but accomplishing it for none. Given the power of God, of course my opinion is that this view shows a lesser love from God since ultimately He abdicates His right on deciding exactly who gets into Heaven thus passing the buck to humans. It is as if He didn't care enough to make sure that ANYONE made it into Heaven.

In any event, both of these views could be said to describe a "loving God", but just in different ways.

Also, since there is no free will according to Calvin, the actions that the latter group DID, that merited a go-to hell were all predetermined by God, even the original fall from grace was predetermined by the Calvingod.

Setting aside "Calvingod", :), this is essentially correct. The fact that all of us were born sinners was predetermined by the Fall, which was ordained by God. The Fall cannot be said to be an accident (that would presuppose a hapless and irresponsible God). If that was the whole story then it might be said that God was not a loving God because all would go to hell. However, we have Christ and everything that He is and did. I think that proves a loving God from almost any viewpoint.

1,826 posted on 01/11/2010 2:10:38 PM PST by Forest Keeper ((It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.))
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