Posted on 01/05/2010 9:46:47 PM PST by the_conscience
Likely "corns" -- The Old English corn meant "a little roundish thing," hence the reference in one OE poem ("The Seafarer" maybe?) to "corns of hail."
Now back to your regularly scheduled thread! ;-)
I would never tell some one that they didn't see something...Many people have seen things they would consider to be out of the ordinary...Apparently God knows people will see things...That's why he says to test them...
I grew up with a couple different families that were always seeing things...Dead people would become visible...Picture frames would slowly slide down the wall...
My first wife's Grandmother, (yes I have been married more than once) used to hold seances in her basement...Demons, Demons, Demons...
Test the spirits...Prove all things...
Now if someone came to me and suggested they had seen or heard something that compelled them to seek out the Catholic religion, I can believe that...What would be impossible for me to believe is that vision had any thing to do with the God that I worship or His church...
Ouch. You'd better get off line then and get your tail to work!!!
On to the topic, I'd also suggest that you do a thorough review of Paul's Pastoral letters, as well.
Personally, I have found it function best when folks’ callings are recognized by a local congregation . . . and ordained by a local congregation. I think when things get larger than the local congegation . . . all kinds of pride and power mongering get really overblown.
Remember, Scriptural.
You may need to remind me.
Of course, you've got to keep your priorities in line and the Internet should probably not be that high up there in your priority list.
Bless you for that suggestion.
Corned beef anyone? (”corns” of salt). Maybe “corns of clay” or something. We gotta find a smart person who knows.
I think you may be confusing things?
My understanding is that people bury statues of St. Joseph upside down (!) if they want to sell their house. And St. Anthony is, among other things, the Saint whose prayers one should ask for if one can’t find one’s car keys or whatever.
I am hoping that you understand that these things are NOT Catholic teaching. I am betting, though, that the customs and superstitions of Catholics will be held against the Church.
Protestants accuse of of having a top down autocracy in which every move and every thought by everyone is controlled and then on the basis of that falsehood blame every weird thing any Catholic does on the Church.
One gradually sees that the myth of control provides a rationalizational structure to support other accusations and that truth, as Mae west did not say, has nothing to do with it.
The Scripture is public record. Read for yourself. Some matter is not covered there directly, but the topic of salvation is covered directly and extensively, and I pointed out where. It is not by faith alone, and it is not one-time event. St. Paul finished every letter with exhortation to good works, and it is by works primarily that we are judged. That judgement is described with great clarity in Matthew 25. If it is insulting to urge you to read the Holy Scripture, perhaps you need such an unpleasant stimulus to do so, especially if you are of the persuasion that the Bible rather than the Church is the rule of faith.
I wasn’t challenged on a “vision.” I was challenged on a statement of something I saw at an Episcopal Church in Manhattan.
Yes. When persistent sin is public knowledge, the priest should withhold the Eucharist also from a Catholic. When the sin is unknown, the presumption is that the Catholic confessed it and received absolution. When a known non-Catholic approaches to receive, the presumption of being in the state of grace cannot be made, and the Eucharist is withheld. That is because at least one thing that is known about the person is that he or she resisted conversion so far.
You then go on to say that you recognize the Real Presence of Christ. So then you are in a curious position where Christ asked you to eat of His body, you know that He did, yet you won't do it for one reason or another. This is hard to reconcile with freedom from sin, and hence with the conditions spelled out in 1 Cor 11.
Thank you for this illuminating question. It is so good that I have two answers.
First, anything good comes from Christ. If the planets rotate on their orbits, that goodness comes from Christ too. From Him all good things come. When an Atheist, Jew, Muslim or pagan does something good, it is Christ working in him.
Second, was the faith effectively imparted to the good worker? Or is the good worker acting on the law written in his heart, the Natural Law but he does not know the faith?
The Gospel of Matthew explains that a good worker who clothed the naked and feed the hungry may not recognize Christ in the person he helps (Mt 25:37f). He may even be surprised to learn that it is Christ Whom he loved.
So we conclude that while no good work is possible without the grace of Christ, it is possible to not recognize the fact and still do good work. That is the second part of the answer.
Please, that is NOT offensive. Clearly I have a different feeling -- and even different thoughts about how seriously to take one's feelings! But I am not offended when you honestly report your reaction.
I am a little confused about talk of "sects" within the Catholic Church. I know there is some disagreement but when the "old Catholics" or the "Polish National Catholics" leave communion with the Holy See, there is, I think, some dishonesty in their calling themselves "Catholic." But that's minor.
I think a "full, rich" prayer life will include all sorts of prayer, some "free" or spontaneous, and other "set prayers."
The advantage of set prayers as PART of our prayer life is that they make communal prayer possible. The "Common Prayer Book" made possible by printing and cheap paper, means that the people can follow along, either aloud or silently, and that they can take the book home and study it. It also "covers a multitude of sins," and other inadequacies on the part of the leader of the congregation. Not all are eloquent, and very many very holy people are not given to much wordiness.
In the Catholic Church we give up a lot of spontaneity in our formal worship, but what we get in exchange is a lot of shared experience. The "set" words for the weeks before Christmas, the days during "Christmastide", and the days following point out new or forgotten aspects of the Coming of Christ in the past, in the future, and in our hearts right now, and remind us of the many ways that God has revealed and continues to reveal Himself.
For me this provides a kind of course of prayer which, as I age and go through the years again and again, deepens my wonder and joy at God's love AND means that I can talk about it with my fellow parishioners.
This is not to say that spontaneous or free prayer either alone or in small groups is not immensely important.
There is an undeniable difference between what a lot of Protestants and a lot of Catholics do in Church on Sunday. When we have "classes" we have them outside of our worship. And when you consider that at an average Sunday service there are 500 or so people of different interests and capacities, it's hard to imagine a Bible class that would appeal to all of them. In our congregation we have several small groups that are pretty much self-running and they meet during the week. Some are Bible studies, others have other directions.
I talk too much. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me.
LOL!
Oh DARN I lost my amulet, now I’ll never be able to find anything .....
I don’t care what church people who think like that go to. They need all of our prayers.
I am sorry, I do not understand what was I "slipping by". My 663 was in response to your 628, which was addressed to me. I responded on the same public thread you posted your 628. Feel free to add your gaggle any time you want to talk to me and I will happily respond to the entire gaggle.
The rest of your post makes no sense either. I can ask Mary to pray with me, but not pray to her to do so? If I do Mary becomes an idol? Was Christ born of an idol? How about I just do what I know to be right and you parse your own prayers?
There are Christians who are not Catholic.
850+.
Quite the ongoing back and forth.
What makes you think that Romans 10:9;13 in any way contradicts Catholicism, let alone the book of Matthew and the book of Romans itself?
It is entirely true that one who has well informed faith will be saved. In fact, one who has a well informed faith is — what else — Catholic or Orthodox. Adherence to Luther’s obsessions and Calvin’s babblings is not faith, it is a breach of it.
Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus.
Praying to Jesus’s mother is denying that her Son is the way, the truth and the life? Think much?
That is true, but the question is the Holy Communion. We do invite the Orthodox to our Communion because we do not discern any heresy in them. We do in other Christians. You are welcome to convert and receive Christ with us. It is my fervent prayer that you do.
I should say I have not seen even one Godfather movie. I know I should. but I have dealt so much in death and sorrow that it's not so much fun for me in "realistic" movies. Terminator, YEAH! Sci-Fi? You betcha. The more explosions the better! Anyway I m not able to comment on The family of the lion hearted. (cor - leone)
Longer answer:
but isn’t the Catholic perspective that a man can really do anything (I am exaggerating a bit here),
I would say anything at all.
but then come to confession and have the priest grant absolution
So far so good.
in exchange for a penance?
TILT!
Woop Woop Woop! CRASH DIVE!
(Forgive me,it's the codeine. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.)
A critical element of a valid confession is that one be, so to speak, "as contrite as you can be." Confessions are not magic or barter, in our view.
There is a formal 'act of contrition' (a written out prayer one can use.)
But in my life, confession is not done in a little closet, but after a conversation with my priest and friend. We talk about my sins and look at what lies behind them or how I got tricked or confused into them. What is the REAL failure of faith behind this thing? What might I be overlooking?
Of course, not everyone can do this. I am blessed to have a priest who gives me the time.
Here's what it means to me: The obvious sin is "I yelled at Nancy." But the underlying thing was that I was too worried about, say, money. Why am I worried about money? Because I still am an idolater in some ways. So the REAL (kind of) sin, is not just yelling at Nancy, but putting more trust in my bank account than I do in the Lord who died for me.
So NOW I'm ready to do the confession. We zip through the introductory rite and I mention taking my anxiety out on Nancy and then go further into not trusting God.
Then the priest kind of summarizes his advice and out conversation before the 'rite'. Then he says, "Tell God you're sorry." And I pray expressing not only my sorrow for the sin and its effects but also for the insult (kind of) of not trusting and obeying to God who has done so much for me.
Okay, that's contrition. That's ESSENTIAL! We'll come back to that.
Penance. Theory and practice: Suppose I break your window because I was idly throwing rocks around. There are two aspects to this.
(1)I failed to take you and your needs and desires, and your 'right' as a human and brother in Christ seriously. I didn't give a hoot about you.
(2)I owe you a window, etc.
MY theory of confession is that it mostly addresses the #1 part of it. The Penance is almost a childish ritual. God and I both know that (a) I CAN'T make it up to him and (b)I don't need to, since Jesus took care of it. (Time to wipe away tears here.)
But penance is like buying a bouquet for your wife or doing the dishes or whatever. it is as if one were saying, "I KNOW I can't make it up, but let me do this to show you I reallio trulio mean that I'm sorry."
It's NOT barter. It's "I'm up here saying the Lord's prayer because I am sorry and I wish I could make it up to God."
Psalm 130: There is forgiveness with you, therefore you shall be feared. I love God for lots of reasons, but chiefly because He went out of His way to give me what I needed. When I diss Him, I am SORRY. Penance is a way to say so beyond words. HE knows it's ridiculous. I know it's ridiculous. But this kind of ridiculousness is what we do when we're sorry.
I hope that's a better or at least a comprehensible account of penance.
Dante has a silly scene in which a guy persuaded a corrupt priest to give him absolution for a sin he was about to commit. So the scene is that at his death the angels are saying he's ours, and the devils say, Wrong! He's ours! If he asks for absolution BEFORE he does something, he 's not contrite, so there's no absolution. Gotcha.
God is not played with. The contrite and broken-hearted he will always receive, knowing that they will probably fail again within minutes. But if you PLAY with Him, "with the wily He is wily."
In a sense, it is admitting, as the Psalmist does, “My sins are ever before me”.
It’s not that we don’t understand our Merciful Redemption; rather, it’s that we are aware always of our capacity to fall, through our human weakness.
In the same way, Jesus returned after His resurrection, but with His wounds still evident-—the piercing of His heart, and the holes in his His hands. We are not to forget the price of our Redemption.
It’s good that we remember our failings and need for mercy and grace. That way, we are always ready to be grateful. We become the one leper who came back to give thanks.
As we read in Luke: we “have knowledge of salvation by the forgiveness of our sins.”
ROE
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.