Posted on 01/05/2010 9:46:47 PM PST by the_conscience
I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?
I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?
Let’s see - fully understand the one who created and sustains the Universe...
OK. Guess I’m not up to the task - and I’ve more than my fair share of arrogance!
Deuteronomy was before Christ. Do you have anything after He sent His only begotten Son?
I’m reminded somehow of Carl Sagan in the 80s speaking of a strictly two-dimensional creature trying to comprehend a cube.
All that such an imaginary creature can know of a cube is its two-dimensional shadow.
May I ask you your opinion of the trinity? Or anything you have learned thus far of it?
Do you think it is something important for us to know? I only ask such questions because I was raised in a Lutheran church. They believed in the trinity, as one.
But I had questions, from all the bible studying we had to do for Sunday school and confirmation and I was pushed off with a “trust in God” kind of answer.
So of course, my little brain said “they don’t have an answer because they do not know themselves.” I guess I still have that “little brain” who is still asking the question!
But if they do not know, why do they teach it as “fact”?
I think we have ALL had our fair share of that one!!
Link.
I hope you find it helpful...not as a doctrine I insist you believe, but rather as a rather successful attempt to explain what Catholics believe.
Of course, the Catechism of the Catholic Church. would be the ultimate destination for the Catholic understanding of the topic.
Nothing was before Christ.
I do insist on scripture only, but as I stated above, I will look for the scripture I hope it provides.
"Of course, the Catechism of the Catholic Church. would be the ultimate destination for the Catholic understanding of the topic."
Wherein my problem lies. It seems like all churches have their own "catechism", which seems to go against others. That is the only reason I have asked for scripture only.
It will take me some time to read through your link, so I hope you'll be patient with me.
Very interesting, watching the thread evolve into a love fest. I certainly don't object; the intent of the Incarnation was to bring the love of God to ordinary men; the commands of Jesus are to love Him and each other.
Let us hope that the understanding of God may be accelerated and enhanced for many of our brethren by going to the source that you name - the Catechism. I pray that they will at least come to know what the Catechism is. As opposed to right now, their believing in what it isn't.
Applause to all who are behaving with uncommon civility on this thread. I agree wholeheartedly with Mr. Rogers and all those who understand and believe in this revelation from God. Sin is missing the mark (Orthodox) and it is going against the will of God. Sin is to be detested. It is a complete deviation from our Imitation of Christ.
I doubt she was diagraming the sentence when she spoke it.. she is a false prophet IMHO .I hope she repented and is in heaven , but if she did not she is no saint.
I doubt she was diagraming the sentence when she spoke it.. she is a false prophet IMHO .I hope she repented and is in heaven , but if she did not she is no saint.
Are you a Mormon?? just wondering
I found that from your link. So I looked up Genisis 1:1-30 and found this....
21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Now, if Jesus was the "our own image", wouldn't God have used it all along. Instead it seems He created one, then created another using "our", meaning His and prior creation, to create the next.
"21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good."
Nope.....I’m just a nobody hanging out here with my bible trying to find that hard to find path that no one seems to find.....or if they do, fall off!
No serious argument there.
But here's a thing: Wycliffe et al. thought the problems with the Church were reason enough to go outside it. Dominic and Francis (late 12th into the 13th centuries) saw the problems. One reason Dominic wanted a mendicant order was that he saw how the wealth of the monasteries compared unfavorably with the austerity of the Albigensians.
But they remained within the Church and procured the support of bishops and Popes who also saw the problems and prayed and looked for reformation. For better or for worse, Dominic and Francis started movements, as well as orders, which led to the founding of universities and incredibly sacrificial mission work, and which made cultural differences which linger to this day. They were able to proclaim the Gospel and to contribute a reforming tension within the Church.
The article saith:
Great freedom was allowed to speculation in the schools, and there was much uncertainty about clerical property.
It was Dominicans and Franciscans who provided the school and their culture in which great freedom of speculation was allowed.
I'll no go look at the other wonderful excerpt you have come up with. I learn so much here.
I wonder if when whichever emperor is was asked the Pope to administer Rome, if the Pope had said no, what a difference that would have made in later history.
I ws looking through my wonderful Penguin atlas of Medieval History the other day. (Everybody should own this and the companion Atlas of Ancient History. Thier paperbacks, inexpensive, and WOW!) Europe was just a big, fat, frightening, bloody, chaotic mess for the longest time.
I think that it took a long time to reach political stability and wealth sufficient to provide an environment where the political aspects of schism were not seen as terrifying. I also tend to think that yelling at, say 15th century prelates for amassing power and wealth is a little like yelling at Washington and Jefferson for owning slaves.
Matthew 3:16-17
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
I think of the Trinity as one essence of God manifested as three separate eternal beings with differing functions, working in complete harmony with each other's pure and perfect divine will and knowledge to accomplish God's plan.
I know even this definition may have some holes in it. For example, there is much to be debated about how the Spirit proceeds from the Son and the Son from the Father. And what exactly does that all mean when the God head is eternal? I don't know. I think that it is impossible to fully grasp God. He is completely outside the realm of our understanding.
That being said, I also believe we cannot understand just how divinely perfect God is and how wretched we are. And yet our Lord Jesus was willing to cast away all the spendor of glory, all the honor given to Him by the legions of angels in heaven, for a brief moment to come and dwell with us in our wretchness and take the abuse of His fallen creatures to the point of dying naked on a cross. How much He gave was more than any of us could give.
I do believe like you that it is easier if one thinks of them as separate beings keeping in mind they are one essence.
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