Posted on 01/05/2010 9:46:47 PM PST by the_conscience
I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?
I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?
Well said, I think.
Thx.
It's all about control and constantly moving the goal-line. When the-conscience posted this thread, wanting to call himself "C"atholic (as in universal), RCs had a fit.
RCs do not control the language, try as they might.
. . . except to an alarming degree hereon . . . with far tooooo many un- . . . thoughtful Prottys . . .
I thought that apostolic succession is what makes priests able to change the bread into flesh ??So sounds like they had bread in memory of Christ as commanded,,
Glad to see that you are back with the full force of the Breath of G-d.shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
I just wrote a wonderful reply to you, and then deleted it, because this is a stupid thread and the question has already been asked and answered a hundred + times.
There are a bunch of people here who want to hold Catholics responsible for every single problem any human being has ever had with their faith. Personally, I reject that. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
If you disagree with the Catholic Church, who cares? So do Moslems, Jews, Hindus, communists, Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, and Mitt Romney. You have access to the Catechism. You might try to give me the third degree, but I thought you guys didn’t care for the inquisition?
So good to see ya brother :)
I’m not a great fan of Calvin, as you know.
However, I believe his comments here are
very
discerning and perceptive.
Why did you see fit to remove my response comparing the term RC to other similar hurtful terms but chose to leave the offending post with “RC” intact”?
The example was one which could be taken out of context, i.e. us and them.
“Are you suggesting that Paul felt we needed to be worthy simply to eat?”
Based on about 30 rounds in the ring with annalex on this one, I’d say you are referring to 1 Cor 11: “28 Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself.”
1 Cor 8-10 discuss our behavior in the body of Christ - the church.
8 introduces “4Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols” and continues, “11And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. 12Thus, sinning against your brothers and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.”
If we sin against our brother, we sin against Christ.
In 9, Paul points out that he gives up his rights, “Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ.”
In 10, Paul continues, “18Consider the people of Israel: are not those who eat the sacrifices participants in the altar? 19What do I imply then? That food offered to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be participants with demons.”
It isn’t that the food offered has any value in itself, but it is offered to demons, and to take it is to participate in demon worship. So he concludes, “31So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. 32 Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God, 33just as I try to please everyone in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved.”
In 11, the Communion is being abused: “20When you come together, it is not the Lord’s supper that you eat. 21For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal. One goes hungry, another gets drunk. 22What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing?”
They were ignoring each other and even getting drunk during communion. They despised the church of God and humiliated their poorer brothers.
“29For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself.”
Not the flesh of Jesus in Eucharist, since his discussion is about taking care of each other, because we are one. But discerning that fact being one in Christ means harming our brother is harming Christ. “33So then, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for one another— 34 if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home—so that when you come together it will not be for judgment.”
If you wish to avoid the judgment of not discerning the body, then “when you come together to eat, wait for one another— 34 if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home”.
In the next 3 chapters, he continues to discuss the body of Christ, but spiritual gifts: “ 14For the body does not consist of one member but of many. 15If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body.” in Chapter 12, and “The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up” in 14.
We are one body in Christ. And THAT is the body we need to discern to avoid punishment, for “my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for one another— 34 if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home—so that when you come together it will not be for judgment.”
Again, that is MOPIOS, or perhaps more accurately a well taught interpretation of scripture in Protestant circles.
Catholics may be required to disagree due to ‘sacred tradition’, but it doesn’t seem an unreasonable interpretation, or one that twists the plain meaning of scripture.
I disagree, but not because of sacred tradition, and not because I am required to disagree.
I disagree because I actually spiritually discern the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ in the Eucharist. Every time. I am riveted. I genuflect before the Eucharist, because I see my Savior there. Before I converted, I KNEW it, from the first mass I ever attended.
I have also attended The Lord’s Supper in a Methodist church, and was urged by several people to participate, but I discerned profanity, spiritually speaking, and refused.
This may seem impossible to you, yet I confess it is true.
Hi alamo girl...the Ph that Zone leaves apparently is not uncommon...I got one too aways back...basically it’s a crude way of disagreeing I think. I ignored it and will continue to..it’s something I’d see in an immature teenager.
BTW..enjoyed your story. I was raised with a Catholic mother and a Baptist father who died when I was four. My mother sent us to the Baptist church and had accepted the Baptist church as her own...though she did attend except at Holidays.
Interesting to me is my grown son and his family, having attended various churches along the way..are now members of a Baptist church and are glad to be back to what they see as ..”the old time relgion is good enough for me”. Ha!
Of course not, the term "Roman Catholic" was coined by bigots AFTER the Reformation began.
I thought that apostolic succession is what makes priests able to change the bread into flesh ??
You thought wrong.
Okay. What's the question?
The irony is that we have non-Catholics on this thread who disagree on almost everything aside from their hatred of the Church.
We have people on this thread who openly embrace Nestorianism and even some who openly reject the Holy Trinity, yet the Calvinists somehow consider them Christians and not Catholics.
Not in secret at all...
The scriptures speak of no one (legitimately) following Peter as the head Apostle...And Paul warns anyone who would pick one Apostle to follow over another...So if any church historians taught that Peter, or Apollos, or Paul had primacy over someone else, he was in serious error...And those that follow him...
And that's where your branch of Christianity went...And you guys admit it...
But the main branch was still there...Those who did not follow an Apostle...Those who did not bow down to statues...Those who would not wear long black robes and all the rest of that junk...Those who worshiped outside of the Jewish snyagogues and had no desire for all that pomp...
As time went on, your religion fell in with Pagan Rome...And it's said that there was even then a very large split in your religion...Many would not go to accept Rome...
Your religion became the official religion of pagan Rome and it had the Roman armies at it's disposal...
According to history, with all this Roman military power, those that never diverted from the true teach started being slaughtered by your church leadership thru the means of this huge Army...
Down thru the centuries we have been called by many different names...And, labled as hertics...After all, we had no standing armies to defend ourselves...But we're still here...We've been here all the time...But we're not only Baptists...There are many offshoots of the one true religion...
The Protestants on the other hand were just that...Initially they were Roman Catholics...Starting with Luther they PROTESTED your religion...And they broke away...But it's not that they broke away from you...They broke BACK TOWARDS the Christianty that God had intended in the first place...Which is where we are and have always been...
On the other point, the poster replied that it means "place holder."
Yep, you guys may have to sit at the back of the bus, but we're at least all on the same bus... :)
Right, but do you have ANY proof of this? Unless of course you are claiming to be part of Nestorianism, because THAT would make sense.
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