Posted on 01/05/2010 9:46:47 PM PST by the_conscience
I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?
I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?
Apparently He did, if you are a Catholic...They brought just about everything from the temple and put it into their church buildings and say it is Christianity...
To the question, “what if the RC church is wrong and the bread is NOT the actual body of Christ, but it is actually a memorial”, wagglebee replies, “ The answer to that is actually quite simple: It would mean that the Apostles John and Paul and quite possibly our Lord, Jesus Christ were LIARS.”
OR it means that Jesus was speaking of spiritual matters - spiritual bread giving spiritual life rather than literal bread giving spiritual life.
annalex has hammered me with John 6 so often I feel like I ought to have it memorized...suffice to say we disagree on what the most accurate interpretation is.
I am no more likely to convince annalex than he is to convince me, but hopefully our debating helps others (and each of us) understand BOTH sides of the argument.
Once both sides are understood, then Paul’s admonition in Romans 14 seems to apply:
“Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; for it is written,
“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.”
So then each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died. So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.”
I’m sure you & annalex & others will continue to debate this with me and others on future threads, and I think those debates worthwhile - if done with mutual respect, and the knowledge that God will not test us on doctrine before we are saved.
As a proud and vain supporter of free will, I need to understand that I MAY be wrong! But of course, I may be right, so the debates will continue...
And if God had 'already' set up a base from which to operate on this earth, it would have been Jerusalem, NOT the pagan capital of the world at the time, Rome...
Catholics do not know Catholic doctrine and protestant are not hearing the gospel expounded / preached from the pulpit as has been in previous generations.. This is a major issue for both churches and I think it explains the move of some to univeralsim or Islam or Mormonism etc..
“Besides, EVERYone knows the correct spelling is “Feelthy.”
MD, I’ve added feelthy into my spellchecker dictionary, so as not to misspell it in future posts.
That would make sense, EXCEPT for the fact that Jesus clarified everything a second time and even asked if they were "scandalized". What scandal would there be if it was merely spiritual? Why would He then let people walk away if they simply didn't understand?
RC is short for Roman Catholic...What, are we insulting your religion by not giving it it's due honor when we don't pronounce the full name???
Sorry it is Catholics that claim they are the original church..
I did not think you could prove it...The services according to scripture was preaching and breaking bread..no ritual sacrifice, no apostle leading them
I would attach the ‘scandal’ to this:
41So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”
Why?
Because Jesus replies to his disciples, “Do you take offense at this? Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.”
(For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
The offense was that Jesus claimed to be God, since his answer was his deity. Just MOPIOS.
I really appreciate most of your posts. I say “most” because I haven’t read them all—there might be one or two I don’t appreciate, no way to know. ;-D
For a while, it seemed that this is just the most idiotic thread on the entire forum, and then I read a post like yours, or wags, or MDs, and realize that there are a few (*rhetoric, here*) ripe juicy blackberries among all the thorny stalks.
Seriously, this thread is like a blackberry patch on the fourth of July—wasps, spiders, skeeters, ticks, sweltering heat, unripened sour fruit, nasty thorns crowding everywhere, and a stem here and there loaded with perfect wonderful berries...
But that is not the full name.
It's not a claim, it's historical fact. The Orthodox left during the Great Schism in the early 11th century and the Protestant Reformation began in the early 16th century.
I did not think you could prove it...The services according to scripture was preaching and breaking bread..no ritual sacrifice, no apostle leading them
What you say conflicts with Scripture. Are you suggesting that Paul felt we needed to be worthy simply to eat?
And you are right, not all early masses had an Apostle officiating, just as most today do not have a bishop officiating.
PS, I was referring to your post 3262
Well, we do know that Christians met in houses...We know that they didn't bow down to pictures and statues...We know that Christians weren't lorded over by a single person or a college of cardinals...
We know that the spiritual leaders of the churches did not set in the main seats at gatherings...We do know that no one wore flashy robes, or black robes...And we certainly know that no one bowed at the feet or kissed the ring of any Apostle, and got away with it...
So whadda you think??? They sound more Catholic, or mor Protestant???
Honestly, is this or isn’t this the 500th time a Catholic has answered that demand on the religion forum?
And this from somebody who CLAIMS to be a former Catholic. Reminds me of those folks who call in talk shows and say, “I was a republican all my life until blah blah blah...”
Hard to believe them, too.
Scripture gives all the answers we need to this issue.
The Biblical model is independent churches united by a common faith. Acts 9:31, 15:41, 16:5; Roms. 16:4, 16:16; ICor. 7:17, 11:16, 14:33, 14:34, 16:1, 16:19; 2Cor. 8:1, 8:18, 8:19, 8:23, 8:24; 2Cor. 11:8, 11:28, 12:13; Gal. 1:22; 1Th.2:14; 2Th.1:4: Rev.1:4, 1:11, 2:7, 2:11, 2:17, 2:23, 2:29, 3:6, 3:13, 3:22.
Local leadership Acts 14:23, 20:17-35, 1Pet.5:1-5.
Pastors leading the early church, no "supreme Bishop" 1Pet.5:1-5, James 5:14-15
Apostles put their authority behind local church leaders 1Cor.16:15-16
Local leadership of churches should be determined by the Holy Spirit 1Cor.12:28, Rom.12:8
What Scripture tells us is we are united by a common faith, directed by the Holy Spirit, our elders come from us and no one church is in control.
Am I supposed to be ashamed or embarrassed about this? If you can't comprehend becoming exhilarated by real, tangible contact with Christ himself you don't sound very Christian. Then again I suppose this is like discussion sunsets with someone who is color blind.
"To Long Didn't Read" (in my case, the thread was several thousand posts long, so it was TLDR to me).
Thanks for your reply.
Excellent !
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