Posted on 01/05/2010 9:46:47 PM PST by the_conscience
I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?
I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?
It's just a demonstration of the INQUISITIONAL MENTALITY that has infected the Vatican INSTITUTION and their affiliated congregations and individuals for so many centuries.
It has thrived on FR from the beginning but has become particularly SHRILL, AUTHORITARIAN, !!!!DEMANDING!!!! OF KOWTOWING, COMPLIANCE, SUBMISSION etc. of all TPC's [Trinitarian Protty Christians] in the loudest, most prickly, most obnoxious of ways virtually 24/7.
ENOUGH ALREADY YET. NO MORE. NO WAY. NO HOW. NO TIME.
So you get to choose which definition is proper noun?
So if some one asks you “Are you a Catholic?” you answer yes.
This is a really silly thread.
Thanks, and the same goes for you. This thread needs to die, and certain trolls need to be shunned.
I think you may be right, especially if a particularly thuggish and inappropriate PM I received is any indication.
My apologies then for not picking up on your facetiousness.
I suggest that I speak as an Orthodox Christian and a Catholic in a "Catholic Caucus" thread in the exact manner I would speak, and have spoken, before a representative of the Ecumenical Patriarch in a closed assembly of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese, or face to face in such an assembly with the Greek Orthodox Archbishop of America. Does that work? It is unseemly that anyone would use a position of authority here on FR to shut down a relevant conversation and observation because he or she simply can't take it.
You have yet to show ANYWHERE that uses Catholic as a proper noun to describe anything other than the Catholic Church which many also call the Roman Catholic Church.
I would contend that the ONLY REASON that the Orthodox (and to a lesser extent the tradional Anglicans and Lutherans) aren't attacked more is that the bigots are less familiar with them. All of the "talking points" are geared toward the Catholic Church and the bigots are typically ignorant to the fact that not all of the views that they are attacking are peculiar to Catholics.
Unfortunately, the only place to have this discussion, under the FR defined ecclesiological defintions is right here. The problem is not with the original creator of this particular thread, whose motives are unknown, and unimportant to me. The problem is that a person who claims to be a Catholic of some sort, in a position of authority here on FR, complained about two posts made by Kosta and me on a Catholic Caucus thread about the uncanonical interference, as the local Croatian Ordinary saw it, of the Cardinal Archbishop of Vienna in a Croatian diocese. That sort of behavior is common enough among Latin Rite hierarchs so as to have become an issue at the Dialogs. Like it or not, it is behavior we have come to expect from some Latin hierarchs. The theologians and hierarchs at the Dialogs take the issue seriously. We as you know are ever ready to call out Orthodox hierarchs, all the way up to the Patriarchs, if they engage in uncanonical behavior. At any rate, the person in authority here on FR, who has yet to admit to his or her involvement, took offense at such lese majeste coming from an Orthodox Christian about the Cardinal Achbishop of Vienna. The complaint was made to an RM, who is not a Catholic of any sort, that outsiders were making trouble, the posts were pulled and here we are.
I'm almost as ready as the rest of you folks to blame those in the heterodox Christian ecclesial assemblies for all sorts of troubles, but not this one. This one belongs squarely with an alleged Catholic authority figure here on FR whose ecclesiology is off and who took advantage of his/her position and use a non Catholic to advance a peculiarly divisive agenda.
I do not disagree and since the posts on the other thread were pulled, I really cannot comment.
My personal preference would have been to have a new thread started as a Catholic/Orthodox Caucus and work it out on that thread.
This thread has turned into a nonsensical exercise about whether or not Catholics should even be able to retain the name Catholic.
Actually, you can't.
I agree. In fact, if many in the ecclesial assemblies knew where the Latins got so many of their beliefs and that some of them are in a sense "toned down" from the way we Orthodox live out those doctrines and dogmas (Most Holy Theotokos, Save Us!), I expect we'd be the target of much more vitriol. On the other hand, if they did understand such things, maybe then they would also understand that most of what they think are "papist magic", in fact are practices from the earliest days of The Church and have nothing whatsoever to do with the Papacy their ecclesial ancestors rebelled against.
Of course if the Orthodox, or even just a few of us, bow out of FR because of what has happened today, that won't happen.
I can only speak for myself, but I would hate to see any of my Orthodox brothers leave over this.
Not that I have seen from any Orthodox poster here.
That’s why I think the entire issue SHOULD have been sorted out on a a Orthdox/Catholic Caucus thread.
I will reiterate again, and make clear my support for the current system of caucus labeling.
For all the complaining I'm hearing about whether Orthodox folks should be included by right in Catholic Caucus threads, I nevertheless see one Orthodox who proudly proclaims right here in this thread that he won't even address Catholics as Catholics. We are merely "Latins." Not good enough to be called Catholics. LOL.
Then, another of these posters happens to be someone who says that Catholics are “bishop worshippers.” This is ironic for two reasons. First, it betrays the idea that we're all together in this, Catholic and Orthodox alike. Calling folks universally as a set of idolaters doesn't strike me as declaring affinity with the same set of folks. But as well, the party who said this, that “Catholics” worship their bishops, certainly wasn't saying this about his Orthodox fellow believers. Herein, the poster was making a clear distinction between Catholics [bad] and Orthodox [good].
Thus, he had no compunction to address us as “Catholics” and as a group of people apart from his group - the Orthodox - when he accused us of idolatry, but now he complains that he won't be included by right in our threads.
This very same soul goes on about how we terrible Catholics just don't understand the superior Orthodox or there phronema. He has said many times in this forum that the Orthodox are wary of reunion with we Catholics because of all our alleged faults and shortcomings. He has stated many times that Catholics and Orthodox should remain separate for the foreseeable future.
That's fine. I often don't agree with much of what the poster is saying, but if he wants to say it, free and open discussion is important at FR. And even though sometimes he ventures into pure insult, it is not usually hysterical and never blasphemous or degrading of Catholicism, like the commentary of some of the non-Catholics around here.
But these sort of attitudes give very strong practical evidence that although we may share one, holy, catholic and apostolic church in spite of the schism between us, nonetheless, we are, at this point, two separate groups, and having separate caucuses is completely appropriate and reflects actual reality. And just as we don't begrudge the Orthodox the term “Orthodox,” even though we believe that we hold to the Catholic and Orthodox faith every bit as much as they do (and perhaps more so), I don't see why they would begrudge us the term “Catholic” even though they see themselves as also part of the Catholic Church.
There is a place for Catholic/Orthodox Caucus threads. But there is also a place for Catholic [only] Caucus and a place for Orthodox [only] Caucus threads, too.
sitetest
“Of course if the Orthodox, or even just a few of us, bow out of FR because of what has happened today, that won’t happen.”
Stay! Perhaps today is a clarion call for the Orthodox to post the earliest doctrines of the Theotokos, and others.
Nothing is ever coincidence. IMHO.
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