Posted on 01/05/2010 9:46:47 PM PST by the_conscience
I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?
I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?
INDEED.
I’m not a member of a presbyterian group.
I guess we have to bow to your paragon far beyond all experience, knowledge and expertise in administering that ilk of thing, alright.
Congrats.
That’s what i said.
Damn if that ain't the pinnacle of irony.
You have quoted my answer to you.
Thank you. I’ve always wondered about it, that’s all.
Do you still have a link to that one?
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Did Jesus have any sin???
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
It would appear that Jesus had no sin...
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Well, obviously at some point in time, Jesus was connected to sin...
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
The scripture not only says that ALL have sinned but All will die because of that sin...
Did Jesus/God die???
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Jesus was born into flesh...The condemnation was on all flesh to die because of original sin...Jesus died...
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
So does this mean Jesus took on the punishment of 'original sin'???
Did Jesus commit any sins??? Of course not...
Twist it and turn it any way you want...When you guys read the scriptures like you read a Louis LaMour Western, you don't get much of what's in there...
But, the fact is, Mary was born in sin and died just like every one else who was ever born...
Leviticus 26:30 - And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.
Amen.
You are very nasty. I asked a simple question and someone else was kind enough to respond.
NGR invoked.
I’m much inclined to agree—having been there and done far more sinning than I’d ever imagined earlier in my life . . . .
However, how many would feel or admit so in the midst of it?
Random letter labels.
The only Christian thing to do!
Thanks for your kind affirmation of what I see as Biblical truth.
INDEED.
BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.
We are saved by Christ's righteousness and good works and obedience, all mercifully imputed to us, and by not our own righteousness, good works or obedience. If that were not true, then salvation would be based on debt instead of mercy.
The natural man hates the thought of sovereign grace and if the natural man does not outright reject grace the natural man will turn grace into a pagan plaything to be manipulated by his will.
“To be born again is to be baptized.”
The falseness of that statement has been proven hundreds of millions of times, by the unregenerate lives and deaths of those baptized as infants by the Catholic Church, or by other churches that practice infant baptism.
It also suffers from the problem predestinationists face - there are a small handful of verses that seem to support it, and hundreds that oppose it. To take a couple of verse and use those those twist the meaning of hundreds is backwards.
As Augustine taught, we are to use the obvious to clarify the confusing, not the confusing to mangle the obvious.
God told Ezekial, “24 I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.” - Ez 36
Not a bad summary of the Gospel, and a passage that clearly links “clean water” with rebirth and the Holy Spirit. Since Jesus was teaching a man learned in the Old Testament about being born again by the gift of the Holy Spirit, interpreting what Jesus said in light of Ez 36 makes more sense than pretending the water of baptism causes one to be born again.
As Peter pointed out, “Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.”
It isn’t the physical washing that saves you, but the appeal to God. And what does “save” mean here? Does it mean justification, or sanctification?
Well, Peter, in the previous verse, refers to “the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.”
The water didn’t make Noah righteous. God warned Noah BECAUSE he was right with God already! But the water DID save them, by separating them from an evil world. It lifted them out of the evil world they were in, and brought them to a new world - sanctification.
The water of baptism doesn’t result in a new birth. It doesn’t result in a new creation. It doesn’t save a person from condemnation - Jesus said to Nic, “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already”. But it DOES have a role to play in sanctification - separation from the evil world we were born in to - as Peter preached in Acts 2, “38And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” 40And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.”
“Save yourselves from this crooked generation.”
Once again, we see salvation used for more than one concept. Here Peter exhorts them to “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” Water baptism DOES have a role in that!
But being born again? That is belief. In a hundred verses.
“Not a single time is baptism by water — physical water — separated from the spiritual re-birth of a Christian.”
Really?
“12But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.” - John 1
“4And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.” - John 3
“10 Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, ‘Give me a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.”...13Jesus said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again, 14but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” - John 4
“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.” - John 5
“26Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you are seeking me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate your fill of the loaves. 27 Do not labor for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.” 28Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent....I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.” - John 6
“37 On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink. 38Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” 39Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.” - John 7
Six of the first 7 chapters of John...would you like me to go on?
“If Jesus wanted to say Spirit, He would have said Spirit, He was not tongue-tied. He said, water and spirit, and when Peter was asked what to do, he also said, be baptised and you will get the Spirit.”
Jesus said water and spirit to a man who knew the scriptures...unlike most of us who take the Old Testament far too lightly. And his listener would have understood the “Rabbi” in that light. Context. Including the context of uncounted verses saying we are born again - justified - regenerated - saved (past tense) - by grace THRU FAITH.
Not water. And hundred of millions of baptized unregenerates - Catholics, Lutherans, Baptists and others - have PROVEN what is already clear in scripture.
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