Who are the Catholics: The Orthodox or The Romanists, or both?

Me

[the_conscience]

I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?

I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?

[Quix]

We don’t like getting caught with respect to our sin.

And, we don’t like the consequences of sin.

The more like Christ we become BY HIS GRACE, Blood and Spirit, the more we hate sin as He does.

[the_conscience]

Does the dillweed believe that there exists a natural right to insult?

LOL!

Aw man, that was classic!

Thanks for using your natural rights.

LOL

[Alamo-Girl]

To underscore your point about blessed assurance in the present, I'd like to offer this:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. – John 5:24

And these:

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. – Romans 8:38-39

To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. - John 10:3-5

My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand. – John 10:29

For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. – Colossians 3:3

To God be the glory, not man, never man!

[the_conscience]

Amen to those verses!

[Alamo-Girl]

Praise God!!!

[Dr. Eckleburg]

But for an individual to be a heretic he needs to be well versed in the theology of the issue from the Catholic perspective as well as from his perspective, and that is not at all common

It's quite common although I can see why RCs would like everyone to think our differences are difficult to discern.

They're not. The more these threads discuss Roman Catholicism, the eaiser it is to see how and where Roman Catholicism veers into superstitious, anti-Scriptural fables and "vain janglings."

[Quix]

Those verses are such TREASURES TO MY SOUL, SPIRIT, MIND, HEART.

PRAISE GOD.

BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.

BLESSED BE THE SALVATION OF THE LORD.

BLESSED IS THE PERSON WHOSE NAME IS IN THE LAMB’S BOOK OF LIFE.

[Quix]

i AGREE with much of your assertion.

However, every TProtyC congregation/denomination has it’s own disturbing amount and dastardly quality of such junk, too.

There’s room for humility on all sides.

[Alamo-Girl]

Amen!

[Dr. Eckleburg]

What it says is, in "prayer and petition", to make your requests known to God. It doesn't say to make them known only to God or directly to God.

God's commandment is to pray to Him. Nowhere in Scripture does God tell anyone to pray to someone or something else.

The more Roman Catholics deny the clear word of God, the more they stand condemned.

"But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment." -- Matthew 12:36

[Natural Law]

"God's commandment is to pray to Him."

No, God's commandment is to worship Him.

[Alamo-Girl]

The one and only Great Commandment is to love God with all our hearts, minds and souls:

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. - Matthew 22:37-38

Concerning prayer,

After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. - Matthew 6:9

God's Name is I AM.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

"Being justified freely by his grace"

How is that phrase any sort of future tense?

It's not. It describes a condition already accomplished.

Consider the legal phrase -- "I, being of sound mind and body..."

That's not an assurance of some future disposition, but a current, ongoing condition already achieved.

[boatbums]

Irony is so lost on some people.

[Cronos]

I do believe the belief in predestination affects proselytisation and missionary work -- if you do believe in a purposeful elect then you do not go out to spread the word and do missionary work because the elect are pre-chosen by God. You then can close yourself up like many Mennonite groups.

From what I've seen of Baptists, they are not like that -- they go out and preach, and especially here in India they seem to be doing a good job of spreading the word.

If Baptists believed in predestination, they would see no point in this activity as everything is predestined and there is no need for any activity. However, thankfully, they don't seem to and they spread the gospel in far-off lands.

[Cronos]

We are involved, and Paul wants us to choose right.

Nice post -- illustrating Church beliefs that we are only saved by God, we can't save ourselves, but we have to accept God's grace and as you so aptly put it, "choose right"

If God’s highest value was for all men to be saved, all would be. However, if God prefers the willing obedience of sons, given in love, to the forced obedience of those without choice, then He will allow us to choose wrong as well as right. That isn’t a denial of his sovereignty, but an acceptance of it!

That's another beautiful description.

James White, a guy I’ve read a lot by and respect, argues that if Jesus died for all but all were not saved, then Jesus would have failed in his goal. However, again, if God’s goal is willing servants and sons, then it would be entirely appropriate for God to die for all, knowing that many would refuse His offer of salvation. It is GOD’s goal that is of interest, not ours.

Thanks for pointing this guy out -- let me search for books by J. White.

Paul argues for us to make a choice...to give ourselves to obedience which leads to righteousness. However, he does NOT say, “You are slaves, so God will make you obey”.

Well put. As you said at the end: "If we had no choice, Paul would have no reason to write. These are words written to people who have a choice, and whose choices have consequences."

[Cronos]

I suppose I was trying to confirm or not my understanding of Catholicism in that concerning heresy, it is presupposed that the heretic is at least a Christian. Almost no FR Catholics have ever accused me or my kind as not being Christians, albeit we are Christians in grievous error. :) Therefore, my kind would be heretics and the term "separated brothers" could be used because we are still Christians

you or your kind -- by that do you mean SBC? Then yes, no one in their right minds could say you aren't Christian. But the umbrella term "Protestant" can't get an umbrella definition. There are too many way-out-there groups like the Metropolitan Church etc. who make you raise your eyebrows!! I don't know enough of what they believe to make a statement, but they are very, very liberal.

[Cronos]

Ezekial 33: “11Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel? 12 “And you, son of man, say to your people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him when he transgresses, and as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall by it when he turns from his wickedness, and the righteous shall not be able to live by his righteousness when he sins. 13Though I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, yet if he trusts in his righteousness and does injustice, none of his righteous deeds shall be remembered, but in his injustice that he has done he shall die. 14Again, though I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ yet if he turns from his sin and does what is just and right, 15if the wicked restores the pledge, gives back what he has taken by robbery, and walks in the statutes of life, not doing injustice, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 16 None of the sins that he has committed shall be remembered against him. He has done what is just and right; he shall surely live.”

That's a fantastic quote for proving that God loves us ALL and wishes us all to choose Him and to choose life

[Cronos]

Later in that chapter he writes, “20But that is not the way you learned Christ!— 21assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, 22to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, 23and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, 24and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.” Again, he is urging us to put off our old self, and be renewed. This work is not apart from God, and it is God’s will, but Paul is telling us to do it. As he says in Colossians 1, “For this I toil, struggling with all his energy that he powerfully works within me.” These are choices. Choices we make, or reject. And he is writing to Christians, so we still have choices to make

Another beautiful passage. Thank you!

[Cronos]

The question would be, “Did he predestine us as individuals, or did he predestine those who believe?” And since we are repeatedly told that faith and belief make the difference, I interpret it the latter way.

The question makes all the difference in the world -- the former can lead to errors of "superior caste" and "why should we preach, God will call his own, we don't have to do anything"