Who are the Catholics: The Orthodox or The Romanists, or both?

Me

[the_conscience]

I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?

I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?

[Cronos]

The sun's polarity flips every decade or so, that doesn't really affect us. The EARTH's polarity does flip -- according to geologists. I'm not sure of the time when this happens (and the north pole becomes the south etc.), but I guess this is in thousands or millions of years (need to check). THIS would have a strong impact on our modern society, telecommunications, navigation, etc. etc.

The Large Particle Collider (Hadron Collider) is dangerous, in my humble opinion, but not for a global catastrophe, maybe a local explosion. I, however, don't see the point of spending million$$ for this -- that money would have been better spent on a new version of the space shuttle or anything else rather than searching for Hadrons or bosons or what have you -- I can't see the practical aspects of that study beyond pure science (this is an engineer speaking from an engineer's point of view!!)

[boatbums]

Thanks, but no thanks...I wouldn't want to give you yet another post to continue to proclaim what was my exact point in the other post. I don't really care who the Roman Catholic, or Catholic (capital "c")Church considers okay by them. My contention, always has been that the body of Christ, the universal church of the savior, Jesus Christ, is ALL true believers in him. God does not need a label to identify us. I also, contend that belonging to a specific religious organization, following all their rules and doing things when they say to do them, does not make a person a Christian.

God has clearly laid out for us in his Holy Word what it takes to become his own. It is by grace through faith in the atoning work of Jesus Christ on the cross. That is what imparts saving grace and we become born-again into the family of God when we each by faith accept the sacrifice Jesus made for us in our place. He took the punishment we deserved for our sins and offers eternal life as a gift. Pure and simple. What happens after that point continues to have everything to do with grace and faith as well. We walk by faith, we live lives pleasing to God, not to be saved, but because we are. Our motivation is love and gratitude for what he has done for us - not fear - and whatever good works we do, they are done through the grace and freedom granted to us in Christ through the workings of the Holy Spirit of God within us. Where we choose to assemble together with those of like mind and beliefs and what these individual places call themselves is so secondary to what gets us "in the family" in the first place. I don't mean to imply that major, Biblical doctrine is not important, it is. But style of worship, structural hierarchy, songs sung or not sung - each person's needs are different and the Lord will lead us, if we ask him, to the exact place he wants to fit us and we will grow in faith.

I once thought I could never know, but only hope I would be in heaven one day. Because of God's word, I can say I know I have eternal life and that I will NEVER perish, will never be cast out and will never be lost again.

[Forest Keeper]

Dr. E.: “As to the second part of your question, reformed Baptists and reformed Presbyterians such as the OPC and PCA believe in the five points outlined as TULIP...”

Mr. Rogers: I’d have to disagree. At least in theory, the SBC is ‘reformed baptist’. I’ve been attending SBC churches in various locations for most of the last 35 years, and independent baptist churches when I didn’t.

As an SBC I'd have to respectfully disagree. The SBC is not "Reformed Baptist" in that it does not teach Reformed theology at its core, as you went on to indicate. Rather, it seems to purposely and ambiguously teach a mixture of Arminianism and Calvinism. IOW, the SBC doesn't take a stand, but it DOES tolerate Reformers in their churches even though the majority is Arminian.

With this in mind one time I read the whole Baptist Faith and Message and, as a lawyer, could tell immediately how carefully it was worded so as not to exclude either Arminians or Reformers. In many cases, both could read the same words, agree they were correct, but for completely different reasons or in completely different ways. :) I laughed out loud at the obvious effort that went into this wording and how no one would notice who wasn't looking for it. :)

So, I would say that a Reformed Baptist could very easily be SBC, but the majority of SBC is not Reformed Baptist. And, I agree with you that SBC sermons never or almost never make a point of distinguishing Arminianism from Calvinism. I have been looking for it for years and haven't caught our Pastor once. :)

[Cronos]

Hey Mary, how are you doing now after all those operations?? you had us all a bit worried! and the number of prayer threads you got!

[boatbums]

This “Calvingod” doesn’t happen to have a buddy named Hobbes does he? ;o)

[Dr. Eckleburg]

And every Presbyterian denomination preaches more Scriptural truth than the RCC.

[Cronos]

I think it also depends on what we are talking about in a particular thread. This one has been a rollicking free-for-all. It was ostensibly started out as a question about what do we call a particular Caucus. But it was never intended as such by the originator (as you can make out by subsequent posts) and was rather intended as what it became: a free-for-all. A post that asks a question “What is pre-destination and why do you believe in it or not?” would be a better place for a true intellectual argument, provided we don’t digress.

[Cronos]

True understanding comes from a transformed life. Maybe it is a spiral - we learn a bit, get it worked into our lives, then learn more and work THAT into our lives. But God is in the business of conforming us to the image of Jesus, not handing us all the answers on a plate.

Well put -- that's something I'm sure everyone on this thread can agree on.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

J. Gresham Machen was a Presbyterian minister.

Here's an excellent article about him...

J. GRESHAM MACHEN'S RESPONSE TO MODERNISM

And surprise, surprise. It's written by John Piper, a Baptist.

[Forest Keeper]

FK: ...a Catholic will turn to "the Saint for that" fully thinking that the prayer by the Saint on his/her behalf will carry greater weight with God than his/her own prayer...

Really?

Sure, I've heard plenty of Catholics say that they pray to a certain Saint on a certain issue because it was his/her "specialty" and that the Saint would pray to greater effect because of it. (If that is wrong then I would be happy to hear what is right.) Why else would you seek a Saint whom you can't even be certain is in Heaven when you CAN be certain with God? You must run the risk of praying to someone in hell for SOME reason. :)

[caww]

I just for the life of me cannot understand why anyones own prayers are not sufficient before God, further that something within people feels the need to ask people, who are not here,(but have indeed died and with God), to pray for them. They can’t hear you? This is just not biblically sound at all, and borders too far into cultish like activity as I see it.

Further, why Christ is not sufficient for people? If they say He is then why all these other rites and complicated issus ,like the right one to pray for you for whatever etc. that have just added up over the centuries. It is mindboggling, and keeps ones heart and mind pre-occupied. Like the Sadduces and Pharases.

All this stuff of Mary reaching down from heaven and handing some munk or whoever the first rosary beads. Calling her Queen etc...it’s just too hocus pocus. But then I suspect some might need to feel significant unto themselves........it is sad.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

When Protestants discuss the RCC they offer up the truth and support it with Scripture.

When RCs discuss Protestant churches, they concoct idiotic fables and fallacies. Probably because that's what they're used to.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Asked and answered.

[Cronos]

On this forum, I do not believe that any other single poster has been

—MORE RIDICULED,
—MORE PERSONALLY ASSAULTED,
—MORE MALIGNED,
—MORE DERIDED,
—MORE PERSONALLY INSULTED,
etc.

than I have.

Ah, you have suffered, haven't you? In Christ-like silence?

[Quix]

I just for the life of me cannot understand why anyones own prayers are not sufficient before God, further that something within people feels the need to ask people, who are not here,(but have indeed died and with God), to pray for them. They can’t hear you? This is just not biblically sound at all, and borders too far into cultish like activity as I see it.

Further, why Christ is not sufficient for people? If they say He is then why all these other rites and complicated issus ,like the right one to pray for you for whatever etc. that have just added up over the centuries. It is mindboggling, and keeps ones heart and mind pre-occupied. Like the Sadduces and Pharases.

All this stuff of Mary reaching down from heaven and handing some munk or whoever the first rosary beads. Calling her Queen etc...it’s just too hocus pocus. But then I suspect some might need to feel significant unto themselves........it is sad.

You have just put my own convictions on such matters far better than I have in all my 63 years. THANKS TONS. Very well put.

[boatbums]

I know, and have known, quite a few Catholics in my day, and I can personally attest to:

burying a statue of St. Joseph in the yard of the house you want to sell.

praying to ST. Christopher for sea-going mercies.

praying to St. Agatha for breast cancer.

St. Anthony for things stolen

St.Jude for things lost.

I know these folks may not have the "proper" viewpoint in their praying, but the fact remains, many, many people pray TO saints for specific things. Right or wrong officially, they do.

[Quix]

LOL.

I see some folks . . . as usual . . . have trouble wrapping very sufficient understanding around the concept of “illustration.”

Sheesh.

Wellll . . . to the shower. Then maybe more collating. Wheeee.

[Quix]

I know these folks may not have the “proper” viewpoint in their praying, but the fact remains, many, many people pray TO saints for specific things. Right or wrong officially, they do.

#############

If the percentages could be remotely reliably extrapolated from the many Vatican Affiliates I’ve known all over the world . . .

I’d guesstimate that 95% or so of them do such things.

Certainly a huge majority percentage well above 51%

Evidently, if it’s not “PROPER”

THE INSTITUTION

is doing a VERY MISERABLE JOB

of educating the faithful “properly.”

Or is that a straw dog trotted out just for boundary workers with other Christian orgs?

LOL.

[caww]

Finally! The gospel is given...truth rises.

[Cronos]

So do Pentecostals believe in predestination? That God determined the “elect” at the beginning of time and He also determined who would go to hell?