Who are the Catholics: The Orthodox or The Romanists, or both?

Me

[the_conscience]

I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?

I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?

[Petronski]

...a Catholic will turn to "the Saint for that" fully thinking that the prayer by the Saint on his/her behalf will carry greater weight with God than his/her own prayer...

Really?

[Petronski]

They’re not dead.

[Cronos]

And, repeating ad nauseum, in The Church, we don’t pray TO an image. We believe the image, the statue etc. to be just inanimate pieces of wood, stone, clay. They are not God

[Cronos]

Well some of those Psalms are off by a year if that’s true

Why do you say that? Uri pointed out the links between the psalm numbers and the dates

[Quix]

HOWEVER, :), it IS my understanding that on certain subjects a Catholic will turn to "the Saint for that" fully thinking that the prayer by the Saint on his/her behalf will carry greater weight with God than his/her own prayer. If that is true then I would call that preferring a middleman.

WHICH, of course, is exceedingly logical and wholesale true to the evidence presented to us hereon.

OH, RIGHT . . . at least the rabid Vatican et al cliques hereon gave up logic . . .

--for lent
--for Christmas
--for New Year's
--for President's Day --for Sunday
--for Wednesday
--for weekends
--for ummpteen feast days
--for umpteen 'saints' birthdays
--for most days in between the above
. . .
. . .

/s

[Petronski]

Psalm numbering variations

[Quix]

. . . It seems logical . . . to most of us . . . who did NOT give up logic for lent . . .

that

IF one felt that one’s own prayers directly were equal to or more efficacious than the prayers to/through a ‘saint,’

that one would forego bothering the ‘saint’

and just pray directly.

But then, as I note, that would be . . . for those who still have a firm grasp of logic.

Perhaps . . . unless one wanted to GRACE THE SAINT with one’s own magnanimous overpowering saintliness in making such a request . . . and thereby somehow benefit the ‘saint.’ LOL.

[Cronos]

So you never ask anyone to pray for you, nor do you pray for anyone who asks it of you, right?

No, of course not -- a good Calvinist would say that the Calvinist god has already decided if say, Petronski goes to heaven, Dr. E and Cronos to heck. So, if Dr. E or I pray for you, there's no use, because it's already written that you're going up there. And there's no use for you to pray for us since Calvingod already decided before we were born that no matter how good or bad we were, we're going to get punished in heck.

your prayers can't save us or save you according to Calvingod.

And, our prayers for us or others, according to Calvingod, can't save us or anyone, we can't change what's already written. Even Calvingod is bound by what he wrote.

So, since Calvingod already decided that Petronski is going to heaven and is one of the "elect", you can do whatever you like and not pray, since you're one of the elites, one of the "elect", the upper caste, the Brahmins and the rest of us poor schmucks according to Calvingod are shudras, untouchables.

[Petronski]

IF one felt that one’s own prayers directly were equal to or more efficacious than the prayers to/through a ‘saint,’ that one would forego bothering the ‘saint’ and just pray directly.

So then you don't bother asking anyone to pray for you. Why bother, right?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

You've asked this same question a half-dozewn times and you've gotten the same answer each time.

God did not tell the Jews to pray to anyone other than Him. Not to the serpent, the cherubim or any graven image.

Is any of this getting through? The error of Rome is that it teaches men to pray to someone other than God.

"Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God." -- Philippeans 4:6

"Unto God." Period.

[Petronski]

Lent begins February 17 this year.

[annalex]

that which is behind

That is a fantastical translation, another example of KJV lying through its reformist teeth.

Find another place where τα υστερηματα means "behind".

Liars.

When it doesn't suit their satanic bigotry, all of a sudden they learn what Greek means:

καταρτισαι τα υστερηματα της πιστεως υμων

Or in English, "might perfect that which is behind in your faith?"

NOT. KJV says there, correcty, "which is lacking" (1 Thess 3:10).

Inflect the word enough and you will get meanings like "lastly":

υστερον επεινασεν -- he was afterwards hungry.

Never when a lack is indicated.

εκ της υστερησεως (Mk 12:44)

Of her behind she cast what she had?

Yeah, right.

The Protestant obfuscation of the gospel is really a shame.

[Petronski]

The error of Rome is that it teaches men to pray to someone other than God.

So never ask anyone to pray for you. Period.

[Quix]

Sometimes, it appears that you have not clue one about your own posts.

[Petronski]

Your misperceptions are not my concern.

[Petronski]

It’s just that sick.

Nice summary.

[Cronos]

Faith without works is dead.

Dear me, Petronski, are you quoting James 2:20, "...that faith without works is dead." ?

Of course, this defines The Church and faith with positive actions, that we must have faith that our savior is Jesus Christ, but at the same time our actions reflect that faith. So, in a sense, positive, Godly, actions or deeds cannot alone get you into heaven, nor does faith alone as is says in James 2:26 that faith without works is dead and in Romans 3:22 we are saved by faith in Jesus Christ. Catholic theology supports these teachings of the Bible.

“good works are done to glorify God and are done in honor of him.”

“Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification at the beginning of conversion,”

[annalex]

In order to be a heretic one has to be informed of the true faith, and then reject it. A Buddhist or, possibly, a Mormon is not a heretic, he is someone of a different faith. Protestants are heretics insofar as they understand and reject Catholicism. Since 20c Protestantism does not seem to even understand itself any more, I hesitate to apply the term to latter day Protestants. They are simply confused people, no comment on the present polite company.

[Petronski]

So, in a sense, positive, Godly, actions or deeds cannot alone get you into heaven, nor does faith alone as is says in James 2:26 that faith without works is dead and in Romans 3:22 we are saved by faith in Jesus Christ.

That's it. You have identified the false dichotomy that must rank at or near the top of anti-Catholic lies. The question is not faith v. works, as each alone is insufficient.

Rather, faith and works are required.

[Cronos]

Salvation / Grace is by Christ. ONLY Christ's actions and sacrifice merited our salvation. We do not deserve any merit from our good works because without God’s Grace we can neither do it nor have the initiative to do it. When God rewards us for our good works, it is a gift from Him. Because our merit is God’s gift then it may come in the form of (increase of) Grace and even eternal life.

We don't do our good works for the pure purpose of winning salvation, we do it to glorify God. By Christ's death, He conquered death, and opened the possibility of salvation to ALL.He came to save us from sin, the curse and death by making us more readily believe this mystery, the Word of God teaches us of it, so much as we may be able to receive, by the comparison of Jesus Christ with Adam. Adam is by nature the head of all humanity, which is one with him by natural descent from him. Jesus Christ, in whom the Godhead is united with manhood, graciously made himself the new almighty Head of men, whom he unites to himself through faith. Therefore as in Adam we had fallen under sin, the curse, and death, so we are delivered from sin, the curse, and death in Jesus Christ. His voluntary suffering and death on the cross for us, being of infinite value and merit, as the death of one sinless, God and man in one person, is both a perfect satisfaction to the justice of God, which had condemned us for sin to death, and a fund of infinite merit, which has obtained him the right, without prejudice to justice, to give us sinners pardon of our sins, and grace to have victory over sin and death