Posted on 01/05/2010 8:25:32 AM PST by Alex Murphy
To me, it seems that a Christians’ denominational choice, is relative to what and how they believe in the bible.
Not in the Aramaic that Christ was speaking at that moment.
You are painting in fairly broad strokes, but in some respects this may be true. Imagine, however, there are folks that think the Bible is simply a means of "encountering" God. They don't think that the information recorded in the Bible needs to be true, or even believable. They see it as just a springboard of thoughts by men about God. The folks from the Reformation would call this an error. How does it strike you?
Go read your Koine greek New Testament.
Jesus was speaking Aramaic.
Matthew was recording Greek.
The author of Matthew was recording IN Greek.
Excellent response at post 53.
Thank you, and that proves the point. If Matthew was recording his gospel IN Greek, then the undeniable truth is that he recorded exactly what Jesus meant. Petras was the Rock and the “rock” was something else. Otherwise, he would have said, “And on You I will build my church.” Sorry, Rome.
When it comes to discussions about God, I paint with the brush He provides me.
I think however a person looks at the bible is ok, along with the fact that it’s a pretty good history book. As to either of them being right, I don’t know.
Otherwise, he would have said, “And on You I will build my church.”
You simply don't get to decide how Christ had to say it....He does.
Sorry Rome.
Why are you apologizing to the capital city of Italy? What did you do to it?
Sorry, but I find that to be unbiblical. Luke 15 pretty well says otherwise.
So the Apostle Paul and Isaiah were wrong huh? This is all from Ephesians and Isaiah.
Most folks do not go down the Roman Road fully, they do not go back to where Romans 3 came from: the duplicated Psalm (14 and 53). Which says that God looked over all Humanity to see if Anyone Understands God, Anyone who does Good, anyone who seeks for Him and He found NONE!
This is where Paul Quotes Psalm 14 and 53 saying 'as it is written,"THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."'
It is normal for folks not to believe this, for it takes faith to do so. The idea that Man does not naturally seek God grates against the flesh and against our pride. For God gives no room for man to boast as it says in Ephesians 2:9 "so that no one can boast."
I believed my choice of God earned me Salvation at one point and then an Elder had me memorize these Scriptures. I was stunned at how helpless Mankind is, really up the creek without a paddle. Nobody sought God on their own - just as the scriptures above say.
Until one takes those Scriptures at face value, you can never understand the hard scriptures - Especially those mentioning Predestination or Election. And not only that but "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation." For if Man chose, there would be Tribes and Nations missing.
soon to be followed by the sequel thread: The Crankiness of the Catholics.
So you're saying that Christ is wrong, huh?
Compare what they said with what Christ, Himself, said. You are quoting song lyrics. Think they ever reflect temporal feelings by the author? Isn't that how most of Ecclesiastes is written?
Christ Himself said that man can come to Him. That same story also says that He meets us as we approach Him. Our relationship (like all relationships) is a two-way street. Thus we have responsibility for our portion of it.
We can always tell when the Catholics begin to squirm over the truth. Out come the non-sequitors. Out come the, “You can’t do this!” Out come the “Where’s Rome, again?”
Fair enough.
Meanwhile we see more of the suspicious use of quotation marks. Just whom are you quoting there?
Usually, on these threads, quotations marks are used to indicated an exact quote which can be found on THOUSANDS of OFFICIAL ROMAN CATHOLIC WEBSITES...just don't ask for a link to any of those sites.
Takes a lot of time to continue to correct your misstatements about "logic". I simply said, that if Matthew recorded exactly what Christ said, then Christ meant exactly what Matthew recorded. And, He did not say, "And upon you I will build my church." He could have, but did not. That would have clearly meant Peter.
Instead, He used the feminine gendered petra, rather that petros. The Catholic Church has erred in making this into a Pope Peter, and we simply wish to correct the record. Well, that and call the Vatican to repent, if it can.
No He didn't.
He was speaking Aramaic, and used the same word both times. Nouns in Aramaic have no gender.
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