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To: Mad Dawg

I’m trying to understand what proceeds what and you have given what seems to be contradictory statements. First you claimed effort preceedes grace but then qualified that by saying grace precedes effort.

So I’m thinking that maybe there is a matrix of graces such that maybe it would go like: grace—effort—grace.


590 posted on 12/09/2009 10:15:48 AM PST by the_conscience (I'm a bigot: Against Jihadists and those who support despotism of any kind.)
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To: the_conscience
Okay. When I saw what looked like a plural "matrices" with a singular verb I thought I'd ask for clarification.

It's been 40 years, or very nearly, since I went into this carefully. But God starts everything. Then it's like the will and grace are dance partners. That's how I'd put it.

"Scholastic realism" tends to think that freedom is NOT the ability to choose between good and evil, right and wrong, without any more attraction -- reasonable or otherwise -- to one or the other. Rather, freedom is the ability to know, to choose, and to do the good. And the proper exercise of freedom is good for one. It strengthens the will and the virtues.

But the will does not act alone in this. God starts everything and enables and assists and even prods and drives all the way through the process. Finally the very holy person is discerning enough to know that good has been done through him and his will and wise (and humble) enough to know that God did it. "The Lord has done great things for me ..."

In that connection, while Jesus is, of course, savior, we hold Mary as preeminent among the saved. By which I mean something like she is the exemplar of discipleship. So when she says, "The Lord has done great things for me," that is a model for us. Anyone, therefor, who says, "My one bazillion rosaries and novenas and clambering up and down stairs on my knees and all that is what has made me holy," that person would be considered ridiculous at best.

That's how I see it, anyway.

I hope that's at least clear.

675 posted on 12/09/2009 8:00:01 PM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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