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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis
Well, you didn't look hard enough, HD. Post #1416 states...

You are quite right. I probably had too much eggnog.

No, that's the teaching of some probably Protestant-turned-Orthodox OCA grenius who didn't leave his Protestant mindset outside when he decided to become Orhtodox....The real Orthodox Church teaches that corrupt human nature is a consequence of Adm's sin, a terminal illness that is passed (infects) on to all Adam's offspring, and salvation is spiritually healing, or restoring humanity to their original state, in the likeness of God (Christlike), or theosis.

I find your description more in line with other things that I have read, but it is difficult when searching the Internet to find an succient Orthodox description on theology.

Please don't quote to me anything that has to do with OCA because as fra as I am cocerned they are not an Orthodox Church (yet).

Well, I can't make any promises. After all, trying to remember all this stuff is difficult. It's like putting too many socks in the sock drawer, you know.

I am glad to hear that, but nevertheless the Bible says God gives you faith or God doesn't give you faith. He either hardens your heart or he doesn't. I imagine it has become obvious even to hard-core Reformists that double predestination just doesn't have much appeal these days, so perhaps not teaching it is a good call.

Perhaps predestination is not fashionable but it's nevertheless true. Many Reformers still teach it; people just don't wish to hear it. We would call it a hardened heart. It doesn't negate the fact but it refuses to give God the credit for one's salvation.

Jesus in the Bible says no one comes to him unless the Father gives someone to him. Of course that makes Jesus' rants about not believing him kinda silly, doesn't it?

I wouldn't say that our Lord Jesus "ranted" about anything. One cannot come to the Father unless the Father opens their ears and eyes to the truth. But just like Noah, we continue to build that ark in hopes that God will be merciful to some. Our Lord Jesus preached to those who He called "sons of the devil", knowing that God would never open their eyes and ears. He was faithful to God's calling knowing the situation and that is what we're suppose to be.

1,443 posted on 12/14/2009 1:45:26 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
it is difficult when searching the Internet to find an succient Orthodox description on theology.

Not really. Go to any Orthodox source, just not the OCA sources. They are just not there yet. The don't think Orthodox. They are Protestants in Orthodox vestments. Just because you can dress like a doctor doesn't make you a doctor...okay.

Go instead to Greek, Russian, Serbian, and other established Churches that have been around for quote some time (Greek is the Mother Church after all!). Go to Patristics and Church Fathers. Not some shake-n-bake quasi-Orthodox Protestant OCA wonder regurgitated in St. Vald's...

Or, better ye, ask Kolo or someone else who is familiar with this stuff.

I wouldn't say that our Lord Jesus "ranted" about anything

Well, that's your opinion. Turning over moneychangers' tables would qualify as a fit or calling people "vipers" and "dogs" (the worst insult in the Middle East), or children of the devil, or ignorant, would certainly qualify as a rant.

Why didn't God in his goodness simply open moneychangers' eyes and soften their hearts and make them "see" and "feel" the error of their ways, so they could repent and turn over their own tables? Wouldn't that have been a much more Christ-like thing to do?

Our Lord Jesus preached to those who He called "sons of the devil", knowing that God would never open their eyes and ears

So why did he preach to them? Wouldn't he had been more effective healing some poor soul instead of wasting his time on hardened hearts that he knew would not believe him? What was the point of that?

1,447 posted on 12/14/2009 2:56:17 AM PST by kosta50 (Don't look up -- the truth is all around you)
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