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To: HarleyD
it is difficult when searching the Internet to find an succient Orthodox description on theology.

Not really. Go to any Orthodox source, just not the OCA sources. They are just not there yet. The don't think Orthodox. They are Protestants in Orthodox vestments. Just because you can dress like a doctor doesn't make you a doctor...okay.

Go instead to Greek, Russian, Serbian, and other established Churches that have been around for quote some time (Greek is the Mother Church after all!). Go to Patristics and Church Fathers. Not some shake-n-bake quasi-Orthodox Protestant OCA wonder regurgitated in St. Vald's...

Or, better ye, ask Kolo or someone else who is familiar with this stuff.

I wouldn't say that our Lord Jesus "ranted" about anything

Well, that's your opinion. Turning over moneychangers' tables would qualify as a fit or calling people "vipers" and "dogs" (the worst insult in the Middle East), or children of the devil, or ignorant, would certainly qualify as a rant.

Why didn't God in his goodness simply open moneychangers' eyes and soften their hearts and make them "see" and "feel" the error of their ways, so they could repent and turn over their own tables? Wouldn't that have been a much more Christ-like thing to do?

Our Lord Jesus preached to those who He called "sons of the devil", knowing that God would never open their eyes and ears

So why did he preach to them? Wouldn't he had been more effective healing some poor soul instead of wasting his time on hardened hearts that he knew would not believe him? What was the point of that?

1,447 posted on 12/14/2009 2:56:17 AM PST by kosta50 (Don't look up -- the truth is all around you)
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To: kosta50; HarleyD

HD, I believe the fellow you quoted, a Fr. Stephen Fraser, is a convert from Protestantism, educated at the hopefully soon to be closed or seriously reformed OCA St. Vladimir’s Seminary. I believe (unless there are two Fr. Stephen Frasers) he left canonical Orthodoxy for the “Church Of The Genuine Orthodox Christians In The United States”, a sort of “bring your own snake” version of something which looks a lot like Orthodoxy but isn’t.

At any rate, Kosta’s suggestion is a good one (exclusive of setting me up as an expert). Stick with the Greek, Slavic, Romanian or Arab church sources. The OCA, especially under its new loudmouth convert presiding hierarch, has gone off the rails seriously. Even then, be real careful of what you read and who wrote it. The Fathers are the best source and they are available online, but even then you can find some odd stuff.


1,448 posted on 12/14/2009 3:57:16 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: kosta50
Turning over moneychangers' tables would qualify as a fit or calling people "vipers" and "dogs" (the worst insult in the Middle East), or children of the devil, or ignorant, would certainly qualify as a rant.

Now do you really believe that our Lord Jesus spoke in an "wild or vehement way"? Perhaps you may be refering to "righteous indignation". That I could buy.

So why did he preach to them?

Because we are commanded to preach to them. Those who God will saved will hear the Lord's calling through us. Those who hearts are hardened will reject the message. But all will hear the word of God.

1,461 posted on 12/14/2009 4:14:50 PM PST by HarleyD
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