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To: marshmallow; Kolokotronis
So if the government decrees that all first born males under the age of two should be put to death, that would be a social issue and thus none of the Church's business.

According to +Paul (Rom 13:1-2), that would be correct; the government is an instrument of God. The concern of the Church should only be with the health of the souls; to make sure the little ones are all baptized.

On the other hand, if the government decrees that a picture of the Dalai Lama be placed in all classrooms, that would be a religious issue and very much the Church's business

Depends on why his picture was placed in the classroom.

How'm I doin'? Am I starting to "get" the Orthodox mindset yet?

You have to evolve first.

Is that how the Orthodox ended up running errands for the KGB because communism was a "social" issue and nothing to do with the Church?

I don't know. But I do know that about 100,000 Orthodox clergy and nuns, and about 98% of all Orthodox churches in Russia were destroyed. I guess they didn't want to run the KGB errands. Maybe what remained did. Do you have any proof other than a single Lithuanian forgery?

On the other hand, Croatian Catholic clergy, with Cardinal Stepinac's knowledge, managed to even run Ustasha's concentration camps for the fascist government there, let alone some errands.

No one persecuted the Catholic Church in the West, not even the Nazis. The Church got along with everyone...with notable exceptions of course. But the Church did little to save those, so as not to incur the wrath of Germany and suffer the same fate as the Orthodox Churches met by refusing to submit to Islam or Communism. So much for the suffering servant.

Instead, the Vatican chose to have friendly diplomatic relations even with the most abominable and pagan regimes, such as Nazi Germany or such "cathoic" regimes as Franciso Franco's and Benitto Mussolini's.

Here's a clue, Pontius.

Yes, Caiapahas.

Whenever government policy directly undermines the Church's ministry or teaching, whether it be to do with life issues (abortion) or religious freedom (crucifixes) it absolutely is the Church's business

Hmm, and where did you read that? I am sure it wasn't Romans 13 or anywhere else in the Bible.

34 posted on 11/13/2009 6:00:06 PM PST by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: kosta50
According to +Paul (Rom 13:1-2), that would be correct; the government is an instrument of God. The concern of the Church should only be with the health of the souls; to make sure the little ones are all baptized.

Makes perfect sense.

Why should the Church care if the fifth commandment is broken as a matter of law? Why should the Church care if the civil law is based on the moral law? The fifth commandment is none of the Church's business.

Neither does the parable of the Good Samaritan apply to it, nor the words in the New Testament which describe how the early Church took care of those in material need, the widow and the orphan nor the words of James.

It must be comforting to know that in times of secular persecution, your church will give you a decent baptism or burial but won't lift a finger to stop the killing.

The question of what religious symbols may be displayed in classrooms is essentially an issue of religious freedom. There is no black and white demarcation between "social" and "religious" issues and your attempt to construct one in your original post to me for the purpose of explaining the intervention of the Greek Church was laughable.

It's not an either/or situation.

The issue of religious expression or freedom of religion in society is both a social and a religious issue. The Greek Church has found that out, too. All organized religious activity is contingent on societal and governmental approval or at least the disposition to not interfere. It often happens that the state does interfere, however, as is happening now in Europe. When it does, the Church can either submit meekly, or....horror of horrors........confront the secular powers.

I look forward to further vigorous action from the Greek Church in opposition to the rulings of the European Courts. It will help to solidify Christian opposition to the secular agenda and it will be hugely entertaining watching you guys trying to explain it after all the tripe you've spouted about the Catholic Church's battles in the culture wars due to your knee-jerk naysaying.

Hurrah for the activism of the Greek Church!! LOL.......

45 posted on 11/14/2009 10:09:39 AM PST by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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