Posted on 10/30/2009 9:01:19 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
A few years ago I was told that at the ceremony of induction of the vicar of one of the local Anglican churches, the Bible which was handed to him had embossed on its front cover the emblem of the Freemasons, the square and compasses. It subsequently came to light that nearly all the male members of his Parochial Church Council were "on the square", and his predecessor as vicar had been a Mason as well. This is not a "low", or Evangelical, church, but very firmly in the Anglo Catholic tradition, where a number of clergy and lay people over the years have talked of becoming Catholics.
Why is all this a problem? The reason is that the Catholic Church teaches that Freemasonry and Christianity are incompatible. The Holy See in 1983 reiterated the traditional position that Catholics who are Freemasons are in a state of grave sin and may not receive the sacraments - the Declaration on Masonic Associations was signed by the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger and makes it clear that local bishops cannot dispense from its provisions. There were two reasons for this document: first, the new Code of Canon Law, which came out at the same time, no longer mentioned Freemasonry by name in its list of organisations which Catholics are forbidden from joining; second, mistaken advice had been given in the late Seventies in Britain and America which suggested that Catholics could be Freemasons if local lodges were not anti-Catholic; the 1983 rescript corrected that advice. Consequently, Anglicans or others who are Freemasons wishing to become Catholics will have to discard their aprons: this may keep the numbers of potential converts down.
It is often claimed by Freemasons and others that the reasons for the Catholic Church's hostility to Freemasonry are to do with politics - the political hostility between the Church and what is known as "Grand Orient" Freemasonry in the rest of Europe and Latin America; English Freemasonry is completely different, it is claimed; unlike the "Grand Orient" it has retained belief in the "Supreme Being". But this is nonsense: the Church's original condemnations from the 18th century related to English Masonic lodges in Florence and elsewhere in Italy.
The reasons for our teaching, expounded in teaching from many popes since the 18th century, are theological. In the first place, Freemasonry is a naturalistic religion. Its rituals and constitutions present the member as a man who is able to advance towards enlightenment through his own efforts - a good parable of this is the depictions of the trials of Tamino in Mozart's opera The Magic Flute. The Mason can earn his salvation through rites of initiation and the activities of the lodge (including charitable giving); it is thus, in a way, the perfect religion for the "self-made", middle-class professional man. It is totally at odds with the Christian vision, in which we need God's grace, through the death and resurrection of Our Lord, to grow in holiness.
Second, the prayers in its rituals specifically exclude reference to Our Lord. They are often prayers of Christian origin which have been vandalised.
In order to encompass adherents of other faiths the Saviour of the world is simply removed and set aside: he is not important. How can any Christian go along with this?
Third, the oaths required in the initiation rites require the new Mason to promise to keep secret the organisation's rituals, even though he does not at that point know what they are. These oaths are what Christian moral theologians call "vain" - they are not acceptable and cannot bind the person making them, even if they are done in the name of God. This is the problem with the oaths, not (as is sometimes claimed) the dire penalties which used to be referred to in the rituals.
These are the principal reasons why we teach that Freemasonry and Christianity are not compatible. In addition, we could cite the reactionary world view espoused in the rituals, supportive of the status quo and urging members to "keep to their station" in society. This, coupled with the make-up of lodges and the mechanisms of social control identified in exposés written in the Eighties reveal the movement as being somewhat at odds with the social teaching of the Catholic Church and our witness for justice and peace in the world. The "preferential option for the poor" would not find a place in the lodge. One could also point to the exclusion of women from lodge membership and the strain placed on many marriages by the commitments demanded of Freemasons: in spite of claiming to be a "system of morality" infidelity and adultery seem often to be viewed with some indulgence.
It is important that Catholics rest their challenge to Freemasonry on the clear theological arguments which I have advanced and that we are well-informed about the subject: sometimes criticisms of Freemasonry are inaccurate and frankly hysterical, and we should avoid conspiracy theories. It is also true that it is somewhat weaker than it was, partly as a result of the books written 20 years ago and pressure for Freemasons to reveal their membership, particularly in the police and the legal profession. Because of the decline, Freemasonry is very conscious of its public image and superficially less secretive than in the past.
Although it is weaker than in the past, Freemasonry still seems to have some influence in the Church of England. A study written by Caroline Windsor, Freemasonry and the Ministry (Concilium publications 2005), has shown that it is still quite strong in cathedrals (a big Masonic service was held in St Paul's Cathedral in 2002, with the Dean preaching) - and also that many parishes where Freemasons are active are weak in terms of Christian witness. If we are serious about ecumenical dialogue, the issue of Freemasonry has to be addressed; the same is true of interfaith relations, as Freemasons are sometimes involved in interfaith organisations - if they are there, we are talking about dialogue which is three-way, not two-way.
The overriding problem is that in spite of what Freemasons claim, their way of life is a religion, with all of religion's hallmarks. You can no more be a Freemason and a Christian than you can be a Muslim and a Christian. Catholics are committed to inter-faith dialogue and mutual respect, but this requires Freemasons to be honest about what they are. For Catholics, thinking about the reasons for the gulf between us can deepen our understanding of the Christian faith.
My Priest knows I am a Mason, I was confirmed by the Bishop while wearing my Masonic ring.Help our brother understand.
I appreciate it, yet I don’t need help understanding. See, I know the TRUTH about Freemasonry. I’m a member. I’ve read and listened to pretty much EVERY anti-masonic view point on the web. I don’t need convincing of anything. I am highly comfortable with my decision and am certain I am right with God. I will defend the misinformation spread about and wrongful persecution of my beloved fraternity the same way I would to those who chastise the Catholic faith.
“”My Priest knows I am a Mason, I was confirmed by the Bishop while wearing my Masonic ring.””
What is the name of your priest? He needs to be informed he is not following the teachings that Christ gave the Church condemning freemason’s from receiving Eucharist.
You can freepmail his parish and name
How do you know the Bishop’s ring is masonic?
If he is a mason we can make sure he is removed if he does not openly renounce freemasonry.
If you don’t send me the names I will know you’re an impostor and your story is a fake
“”Judge not, my friend, for it is not for you to decide.””
Christ has already decided and His Church says you can’t be a freemason. It has nothing to do with me.
“”I HIGHLY doubt that you follow every decree to the letter that has been laid down over the years. “”
If someone points out any error from me and shows me the Church says I am wrong I follow with the Church says.
”My Priest knows I am a Mason, I was confirmed by the Bishop while wearing my Masonic ring.”
“How do you know the Bishop’s ring is masonic?”
Now that would be extremely weird if the bishop was wearing
MAK1179’s masonic ring; it could hint at problems above and beyond the “whole Catholics being Masons thing”.
Just a joke, FRiends.
Freegards
“”Now that would be extremely weird if the bishop was wearing
MAK1179’s masonic ring””
I went back and re read and saw that Mak said Mak was confirmed with his ring on .
I doubt the Bishop noticed
*I* was wearing the ring, not the Bishop. My story is true and I personally could care less if you believe it.
I’m also fairly certain Christ didn’t pass anything to his disciples to put in the Bible that you can’t be a Freemason. Though I’m sure you are referring to the Pope. $20 says you were trying to trap me with that one.
My Priest is aware of the Church’s view on the Fraternity, but he, like myself, chooses to use sound judgment. I am sure you will disagree with that as well. Fair enough. Disagree away.
lol at you calling me an impostor.
I am sure that you gouge out your eyes for looking at beautiful women (or men if that’s your way) and follow every letter of the bible, know each Papal decree equally follow them to the T. I am sure you also agree with everything the church has decided and done over the years.
This includes: the following decrees “There is but one universal [”Catholic” means universal] Church of the faithful, outside which NO ONE at all is saved. (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)
We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff. (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull, Unam Sanctum, 1302.)
” The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes, and preaches that NONE of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics [Protestants] and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, UNLESS before death they are joined with Her” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441).
Amongst others. Do you believe these decrees? Do you inform your family, friends and other loved ones that may not be Catholic that they will burn in eternal fire? OR do you disagree with these decrees?
Depending on your answer I say YOU are the impostor. Do some research, look inward and tell me you agree with all the Church has said and done over the years and that you follow EVERYthing in bible to the letter, including the treatment of women know of and follow every decree made by Papal past and THEN I will accept your judgment.
“”I’m also fairly certain Christ didn’t pass anything to his disciples to put in the Bible that you can’t be a Freemason.””
Catholic’s don’t believe Bible alone,that’s protestant. Do you realize this?
The Church can issue infallible statements given by Christ that is not in the Bible.
Being a freemason is condemned by Pope Leo XIII ,Cardinal Ratzinger,Perfect etc..
If you are telling the truth about your priest saying he knows you’re a freemason and boasting about it on FR,you would have no problem giving me his name and parish by freepmail
Personally I hope you go to the Church with these questions and become stronger in your faith. Perhaps this is not of interest to you or your disagreements run too deep.
What I don't understand is what do you get from Freemasonry that you cannot get in the Church or elsewhere without knowingly rejecting the authority of the Church?
Aye - ignore everything else in the post.
Yes, I do know that, never said otherwise. Re-read what I wrote.
Why on earth would I give you information that you would purposefully use to disrupt the lives of others. To prove my story? Give me a break chief. You believing that my priest knows or that I was confirmed with the ring on is of no real concern to me. It’s truth that I stated...take it or leave it as it is.
I’m not on here “boasting”...I’m defending my fraternal connection in a post that is bashing it. One started by Alex Jones where he stole (8th commandment) an article from Father Ashley Beck that tells blatant lies and misinformation about the fraternity.
(Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441).
“”Pope Eugene was not speaking of the invincibility ignorant(your not one of them since you know the Church condemns freemasonry)””
You don’t know Catholicism.
This is what Pius IX says about Salvation of the Ignorant...
QUANTO CONFICIAMUR MOERORE from Pope Pius IX in 1863
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9quanto.htm
“There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments.”- Pope Pius IX
and...
The Church is the “universal sacrament of salvation”,79 since, united always in a mysterious way to the Saviour Jesus Christ, her Head, and subordinated to him, she has, in God’s plan, an indispensable relationship with the salvation of every human being.80
For those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church, “salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church, but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit”;81 it has a relationship with the Church, which “according to the plan of the Father, has her origin in the mission of the Son and the Holy Spirit”.82
I thank you for the words. I’m sorry you feel I don’t help the case. I will have to disagree with you on that.
I don’t get anything from Freemasonry that I should be getting from the Church. It’s something ELSE I enjoy doing. The same way I enjoy having a poker game as well, weightlifting with friends etc...
I know there isn’t anything sinful in what we do in the fraternity. I feel sorry for the ignorance and politics that caused such a position to be taken.
To correct error.
You're being sinful if you don;t allow someone to show the priest what the Church officailly teaches and you only care about yourself ,not fellow man to show the truth.
I guess that makes you a good freemason,self serving!
Ahhh twist and twist...the Priest knows the position. We have spoken of it...as I previously stated.
Anyway - since this has turned from an exchange of information and viewpoints to attacks, judgment and name calling. I’ll take my self serving behind out of the discussion with you.
I too am sorry for your ignorance and lack of good sense. I’ll pray for you.
- Yours in Christ.
The same way I enjoy having a poker game as well, weightlifting with friends etc...
You can do these, and many many similar activities, without going against the authority of your Church. Your Church is saying quite clearly, you must choose.
What would your fellow masons think if you were consciously continuing in an activity that was against the express teachings of Freemasonry?
Again, I hope take your questions to the Church; I believe you do not fully understand, and hope, again, the result will be a very beneficial one for you and the Church. I am a convert, I converted in middle age. I had many questions and have had since. When I do I discuss them with priests, educational ministers; I read more and look deeper into the teachings of the Church.
This is what I'm suggesting you do. I think, like me, you'll will find many, most or all of your disagreements are based on lack of knowledge of the fullness of the Church's teaching proclaiming Jesus Christ.
After a thorough effort here, I think the honest thing to do would be to choose either the Church or Freemasonry.
This is my opinion of course, I think it's worth considering.
I wish you the very best; may God bless you.
And thank you my friend.
“”Ahhh twist and twist...the Priest knows the position. We have spoken of it””
Have you shown him what Cardinal Ratzinger wrote upholding ban on freemasonry and no reception of Eucharist?
Declaration on Masonic Associations (Quaesitum est)
http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/freemasonry.htm
If you have not shown him this you are responsible for others who this priest condones freemasonry.
This is very serious to your soul ,dear brother
I will pray during Adoration this week for you to leave and condemn freemasonry
MAK1179,
I believe that you feel you’re doing no wrong, and I likewise believe that you feel we’re making a mountain out of a molehill. Please, try to understand in the context of this, taken from one of Salvation’s pre-Lenten threads from last year:
“Continuing with our series on The Eternal Sevens we move on to The Seven Spiritual Works of Mercy.
1. To Admonish the Sinner
One cannot perform the the works of mercy without being willing to admonish the sinner and warn them out of true charity for the sake of their soul. Of course, one must do this with compassion and love, but one cannot let that compassion and love be seen as the drivel of tolerance that is preached today. Christ did not hug those seeking to stone Mary Magdalene nor joke around with the money peddlers in the Temple. Likewise, despite what twisted Catholics would like to believe, He did not wink at Mary Magdalene and tell her to just be herself either. Too often we are told that we are not fit to judge others and this is true, but this does not mean that we cannot warn them, teach them and guide them and leave the judging to God. Beware anyone who tells you not to judge when you try to help another return on the path to salvation, for he who warns you is working on a commission from the devil.
2. To Instruct the Ignorant
Given the premise of the first work described above, it becomes evident that in watching each other’s back we must become teachers for each other. One of the greatest lies perpetuated by this lost society is the notion that tolerance is a virtue and therefore one cannot respect others if one does not accept them as they are and condone what they do. In the footsteps of Christ and Saint John The Baptist, we each have a duty to speak out against wrong and evil. Sometimes we will need to use gentle tact and other times a loud yell will be needed, but in both cases the objective will be to instruct.
Our own salvation may very well be judged by how many people we brought with us to Paradise. By our actions and words, we will either bring many to salvation or to perdition. The third possibility is that we will only bring ourselves to the Feast offered by God, in which case we will surely have ignored love of others in the exclusive service of love of self. Simply put, we must see our role as salespeople for God and our own merit may be judged by how many customers we sell on Christ. Unlike the perverted education of this society, our lessons must be firm guides toward God and salvation and not diluted aberrations justifying a move away from God and toward self.
3. To Counsel the Doubtful
If there is one given in this world, it is that we as imperfect humans will from time to time experience doubt and confusion. We will all get lost on the road and need directions and guidance. True Catholicism requires that we watch each other’s back and help each other back on the road to salvation. It is in this regard that most of today’s clergy is seriously lacking, for they not only have relinquished their role as guides to salvation, but have become purveyors or perdition instead. In so doing they place the faithful in a precarious position of either seeking salvation “solo” or following the wolf to grandma’s house. When nuns and priests distort social justice into promotion and tolerance of evil and sin, they become the wolves instead of the shepherds.
Your fellow Catholics here are not trying to embarrass you or tweak you, but trying to help, and to be good Catholics, as the Church instructs us we should be. It is said with love, and I say that not having met you, but caring all the same. I was once at arm’s length from the Church. It was on me. And while I won’t share details here, you may freepmail if you wish. But all I’m getting at is that, at first, I didn’t want to fix what I had done, for reasons that I would have difficulty recounting well now. It took the Holy Spirit’s influence. I changed. It took a LONG time, in my case. I will pray for you, not because my opinion matters, but because whether my opinion matches yours or not, the Church has a genuine, official position directly contrary to your current one. It may be that some clergy are, or have, chosen to “miss” this. And that may be out of concern for your feelings, a not inconsiderate thing, in intention if nowhere else. But please, look up the Church’s position. Not for me. Not for the rest of us here. For yourself. I promise you, as surely as I know my own name, that I will not here, nor ever, bring the subject up with you again. I trust that you either will, or won’t, look. It’s obvious that you’re intelligent, based upon your words here. Please, look for yourself. And pray, regardless of what you do or don’t decide to do. I will pray for you, not because of my opinion, but because friends do that for one another.
Dave
Thank you for saving me a bunch of keyboarding!!!
My family is full of Masons. Every one a God fearing and devote religious person - most are Catholics and hold the church in contempt on this issue.
I doubt whether most people give thought to the underpinnings of Christianity too. But in both cases, membership has consequences.
I have sat with many Masons in the past 30 years who were Catholics. A number of them have since left this life to be with God. Every time this SOS comes back to FR for another round I have to laugh at the pettiness of the “Gotcha” mentality that pervades these threads. The argument that Masonry and the Catholic Church teach salvation by works rather than Grace is made out of ignorance or a need to judge. Each person has a relationship with thier Saviour that will be judged by one infinitely more qualified than the “experts” who start these threads.
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