Replies

Yah. He was never the Archbishop of Constantinople, either. So what? That's not what I'm arguing, and you should know that by now. Constantine the Great WAS pontifex maximus at the time that Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire.

No, Constantine retained the title of pontificus maximus of Roman PAGANISM.

Are you a member of one of these sects that believes that Easter and the Trinity are pagan traditions?

Don't worry, wagglebee. I give my arguments freely, without waiting for the prior approval of you or anyone else. Just thought I would re-phrase your point in more historically accurate language.

Which you have yet to accomplish.

Which title? Your vagueness is confusing.

Pope of the Catholic Church.

Do you see the slippery sleight of hand being attempted here? Here's how it goes:

Pontifex Maximus was the title applied to the head of the official Roman religion of paganism.
St. Constantine set aside the paganism and made Christianity the official Roman religion.
Therefore . . . wait for it . . . Pontifex Maximus became the title applied to the official Roman religion of Christianity.

Bzzzt. Not so.

Yah. He was never the Archbishop of Constantinople, either. So what? That's not what I'm arguing, and you should know that by now. Constantine the Great WAS pontifex maximus at the time that Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire.

>>> No, Constantine retained the title of pontificus maximus of Roman PAGANISM. <<<

What do you mean by this? I could just as easily write, "BXVI retains the title of pontifex maximus of Roman PAGANISM," but I wouldn't have said anything substantive or addressed the issues that I've brought up, now would I?

>>> Are you a member of one of these sects that believes that Easter and the Trinity are pagan traditions? <<<

Actually, I'm a Trinitarian, and I've read my Ronald Hutton (and others) and so I know that the folks who equate Easter with paganism are either deluded, sadly mistaken or are grinding an axe with little regard for the truth. And don't get me started on those All Hallows Eve = Samhain nutters. However, this is off topic, don't you think?

Don't worry, wagglebee. I give my arguments freely, without waiting for the prior approval of you or anyone else. Just thought I would re-phrase your point in more historically accurate language.

>>> Which you have yet to accomplish. <<<

I'm not so sure. You are beginning to distinguish between P.M. and "papa." That's a step in the right direction.

Which title? Your vagueness is confusing.

>>>Pope of the Catholic Church. <<<

Right. Once again, please note that I'm arguing that in the context of the 4th century Mediterranean basin, there was no Pope of the Catholic Church, certainly not in the sense we would say today that "BXVI is called the Pope of the Catholic Church." However, there WAS a Pontifex Maximus of the Roman State.

...which is why my original post was requesting an apology for UriÂ’el-2012, who was being incorrectly accused of misrepresenting the facts and "cutting and pasting" in regards to this matter.

Do note a few things:

1. Pontifex Maximus is not one of the Official Titles of the Pope. Yes, he's called that, but the official title and Office died with Gratian.
2. The usage of the term Pontifex Maximus may have it's origins as greatest bridge (possibly signifying a person in charge of bridges over the sacred Tiber river in pre-Christian Rome), but it's meaning evolved over the centuries so that Pontifex means priest and Max is well, as it always was, "greatest", so signifying Head Priest. The meaning of the term now is Head Priest in Latin
3. Uriel's assertion that this was somehow inherited from the Babylonians is nonsensical. If the term originated with the Babylonians, it would, logically, have died out when the Babylonians were conquered by the Persians (Persians believed in the teaching of Zoroaster and the Shahenshah (Emperor) of Persia was not Head Priest, and there was no Head Priest among the Magi (Zoroastrian priests). If the term survived, it would have logically gone to a king/priest in Iraq or Syria or Iran, not to far-away Rome.