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To: Ottofire

With all due respect to MacArthur, I suspect this is driven more by his wishful thinking than his exposition. If God could determine that, “Jacob I love, Esau I hate” before they had done anything good or bad, then we have a problem.

If men are elect before the foundation of the world, then some babies (fetal or born) are elect, some are not. It is no greater tragedy that a baby is lost forever than a full grown man is lost forever. And, if election is truly “unconditional”, then we have no argument either way.

If MacArthur were right, it would compel us to advocate for abortion, since the “age of accountability” has not been reached and we guarantee them a place in heaven. Why let them grow up and risk being lost for a hundred trillion years?

The judgment of God is perfect, whatever that is. I hope MacArthur is right...but I think he is mistaken.


2 posted on 10/06/2009 11:05:37 AM PDT by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

I will trust in God to do the right thing.


3 posted on 10/06/2009 11:41:56 AM PDT by Colvin (Harry Reid is a sap sucking idiot.)
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To: Dutchboy88; Ottofire

“”If God could determine that, “Jacob I love, Esau I hate” before they had done anything good or bad, then we have a problem.””

God does not think in succession or He would be moved. God sees all things at once and together,thus,hating Esau had nothing to do with creating Esau so He could hate him.
Esau was hated because of his free will decisions- all of which was seen by God in one NOW

From Saint Thomas Aquinas

What is found naturally in all active causes, must be found especially in the Prime Agent. But all agents in their own way love the effects which they themselves produce, as parents their children, poets their own poems, craftsmen their works. Much more therefore is God removed from hating anything, seeing that He is cause of all.*

Hence it is said: Thou lovest all things that are, and hatest nothing of the things that Thou hast made (Wisd. xi, 25).

Some things however God is said, to hate figuratively (similitudinarie), and that in two ways. The first way is this, that God, in loving things and willing their good to be, wills their evil not to be: hence He is said to have hatred of evils, for the things we wish not to be we are said to hate. So it is said: Think no evil in your hearts every one of you against his friend, and love no lying oath: for all these are things that I hate, saith the Lord (Zach. viii, 17). But none of these things are effects of creation: they are not as subsistent things, to which hatred or love properly attaches.


6 posted on 10/06/2009 3:12:21 PM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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