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To: Dutchboy88; Ottofire

“”If God could determine that, “Jacob I love, Esau I hate” before they had done anything good or bad, then we have a problem.””

God does not think in succession or He would be moved. God sees all things at once and together,thus,hating Esau had nothing to do with creating Esau so He could hate him.
Esau was hated because of his free will decisions- all of which was seen by God in one NOW

From Saint Thomas Aquinas

What is found naturally in all active causes, must be found especially in the Prime Agent. But all agents in their own way love the effects which they themselves produce, as parents their children, poets their own poems, craftsmen their works. Much more therefore is God removed from hating anything, seeing that He is cause of all.*

Hence it is said: Thou lovest all things that are, and hatest nothing of the things that Thou hast made (Wisd. xi, 25).

Some things however God is said, to hate figuratively (similitudinarie), and that in two ways. The first way is this, that God, in loving things and willing their good to be, wills their evil not to be: hence He is said to have hatred of evils, for the things we wish not to be we are said to hate. So it is said: Think no evil in your hearts every one of you against his friend, and love no lying oath: for all these are things that I hate, saith the Lord (Zach. viii, 17). But none of these things are effects of creation: they are not as subsistent things, to which hatred or love properly attaches.


6 posted on 10/06/2009 3:12:21 PM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: stfassisi; Dr. Eckleburg

Notice how much wrenching you must do to bend the natural meaning of the text into your construct...well the Catholic Church’s construct. You, technically are not allowed a personal construct and certainly not allowed the “free will” to determine your own thoughts on this matter should those conflict with the mothership.

Don’t you just love Rome?


7 posted on 10/06/2009 3:17:09 PM PDT by Dutchboy88
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