Posted on 09/21/2009 1:00:43 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
Daniel 7:7-8:
After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it [was] diverse from all the beasts that [were] before it; and it had ten horns.
I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn [were] eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
Before I go any further, let me explain what I believe this passage of Scripture is telling us to watch for.
The future kingdom of Antichrist, which I believe to be the ever-growing European Union, the revived Roman empire if you will, is, at some point, going to have ten "horns" or primary seats of authority.
Many people believe these ten horns already exist in the form of the Western European Union (WEU), which has ten permanent member nations.
Encyclopedia Britannica describes the WEU as an "association of 10 countries (Belgium, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, and the United Kingdom) that operates as a forum for the coordination of matters of European security and defense. It contributed to the creation of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and works in cooperation with that organization. The WEU became the primary defense institution of the European Union in the 1990s, though it gave up that role in 2001."
Presently, although anything could happen and turn things around on a dime, it seems that the WEU's role as the teeth of the rising Beast government of Antichrist has been greatly diminished since 2001. Because of this, it seems unlikely that the WEU is going to be the ten horns referred to by the prophet Daniel.
Assuming the WEU isn't going to be the ten horns among which the Antichrist will ascend to prominence, are there any other possibilities in view? Absolutely and it's a topic that has been brought up on a number of occasions in recent years - the creation of a "core Europe" being formed within the boundaries of the larger European Union.
A "Core Europe"
The EU Observer is reporting the following concerning a "core Europe" being formed, in part:
"Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has suggested that if the Irish people vote against the Lisbon Treaty a second time, a group of European Union member states should move to create a "core Europe" in order to implement the treaty."
And...
"Various politicians and academics have advocated the idea that an inner core of EU member states drive forward with deeper integration via the development of a new organisation, often described as a European Federation, alongside the existing European Union."
For those of you unfamiliar with the Lisbon Treaty, it is essentially a repackaged version of the European Union's Constitution. In 2004, leaders from all the member nations of the European Union signed the European Union's Constitution amid great pomp and circumstance, but it ran into stumbling blocks afterward, all of the European Union's member nations having had to ratify it through referendum for it to be official. Ireland, as the linked news story above implies, didn't do so. Thus, the process was derailed.
After it seemed clear the EU Constitution couldn't be passed by all EU member nations ratifying it, the Constitution was repackaged as the Lisbon Treaty and talk of a "core Europe" being formed began to make rounds on the internet, many in the European Union seeing the failure of a few nations to ratify the Constitution being a stumbling block to the EU achieving its global ambitions which brings us to where we are today.
Considering the news story linked above, could the creation of a "core Europe" or European Federation within the larger European Union be on its way to becoming a reality? Theoretically speaking, it seems a distinct possibility.
If a "core Europe" comes into existence, my suspicion is it will end up being a federation comprised of 10 members, allowing for the fulfillment of bible prophecy to occur at the appointed time. I'm not being dogmatic that this is what's going to happen, but it is something for us to bear in mind as we await the return of Jesus Christ for His Church. Why? Because a "core Europe" being formed that would operate as the Lisbon Treaty provides for would replace the EU's current system of rotating six-month presidencies with the creation of an actual position for an EU President to be seated, as well as an EU foreign minister with a wide swath of diplomatic powers. The foreign minister's position, as set forth in the Lisbon Treaty, would hold such tremendous power that he could not only set EU foreign policy but implement it as well, an issue of such concern to a large number of leaders in the Union that they have vocally stated that no one person should hold such tremendous power, one prominent reason why both the EU Constitution and Lisbon Treaty have met some opposition.
Sooner or later, ten horns
Concerning the advent of the prophesied Antichrist to come, we're told, in Daniel 7:7-8, that a group of ten "horns" (horns being symbolic of seats of authority or positions of power) will arise in the last days.
Whether these ten horns come to exist as a result of a "core Europe" being formed, the WEU being reasserted as the primary defense institution of the EU, or another ten-member association of powerful leaders yet to be revealed coming into view, we have a clear picture of what is going to transpire in the aftermath.
A "little horn" - symbolic of the prophesied Antichrist - will come up among the "ten horns". Daniel 7:8 tells us that, before this "little horn", three of the first horns will be "plucked up by the roots."
The original Hebrew text for being "plucked up by the roots" is `aqar and it means just what it seems to as we read it English.
The Antichrist, most likely because these three nations (or leaders) aren't going to go along with whatever he has in mind as he makes his ascent among them, is going to uproot them, rendering them silent.
The little horn (Antichrist) will be speaking "great things" at this time in his political ascent, his tongue being like a razor I dare say, both in its sharpness of tone and its ability to create injury to any adversaries standing in his path.
Conclusion
The idea of a "core Europe" being formed within the revived Roman empire of bible prophecy could open a doorway to the advent of the Antichrist occurring. While it is nothing more than an occasionally brought up possibility, what it demonstrates to me is how dedicated many influential leaders inside the European Union are to ensuring that the Union's ever-growing economic power and diplomatic influence isn't slowed by a few detracting voices. In that sense, the EU Beast is itself already much like the leader who will someday come to be its supreme leader, the Antichrist. Doesn't this fit perfectly with how bible prophecy uses the term "Beast" interchangeably, at times describing the Antichrist himself while at other times describing his empire?
What fascinating and intellectually stimulating times we're living in! Stay tuned, Church! There's no telling what we're going to see next!
I beg to differ. I say that Islam fits the bill... not the EU. Biblical prophesy has nothing to do with the West. It is all centered around Israel and the middle east. Not Europe. The revived Roman empire had 2 legs.. the western and the eastern. It’s all about the eastern portion. That antichrist figure will come out of Islam. The description of this world figure fits the messianic islamic figure perfectly. Better look into it... because this paradigm doesn’t fit.
I agree that there is a good possibility that the Antichrist will be Muslim.
This sounds similar to a famous curse. "May you live in interesting times."
LOL! This is true and I think the fun hasn’t even begun yet.
save
I think Islam is an arm of the antichrist..
It wouldn’t surprise me at all.
I certainly don’t think they’d have a problem with one another.
Eastern Europe and Western Europe need to unite to fight Islam.
This stuff repeats every 600 to 1000 years. Battle of Tours 732 AD. Battle of Vienna 1683 AD.
The EU sucks and should be abolished as it’s political correctness and other BS pander to Islam.
This “Trumpet” publication was going on and on about Germany being a problem. Germany is not the problem. Merkel is not an Islamist like ACORN boy.
Neither the Book of the Revelation nor the other prophetic books mention "the antichrist." "The Antichrist" seems to be a construct based upon four verses in John's epistles. "Who is the antichrist, but he who denies the Father and the Son." This means anyone who denies God the Father and God the Son is the antichrist. That can be anyone.
However the Book of the Revelation, Daniel, and the Apostle Paul do speak of a "Man of Sin," who is given other descriptions, such as "the Beast," "The Little Horn," etc., who aspires to become world emperor during the 7-year period preceding the triumphal return of Our Lord. Popular eschatologists like Hal Lindsey, Chuck Missler, etc. label this individual "The Antichrist." But such a label is not used in scripture for this individual.
Why am I splitting hairs? Because according to the Apostle John, there are MANY antichrists, not just one. Looking for the one in the future tends to give people a false sense of security, having fed their curiosity, but not giving cause for personal vigilance or piety. But knowing that there are MANY antichrists, serves as a warning to protect your heart, mind and emotions from those who would deceive, if possible, even the elect.
I think, like the word "rapture", which cannot be found in Scripture but is simply a word used to describe an event which will happen, "Antichrist" cannot be found in Scripture but is basically an all-purpose word to describe a world dictator who is yet to arise.
The fact that "rapture" is not explicitly in the Bible does not mean that there will not be a moment in time when Christ removes His church from the scene before He judges the world, and the fact that "Antichrist" is not used explicitly by God to describe the "man of sin" carries no particular meaning- the world will still be under the satanic rule of the "Antichrist" for seven years- no matter what label someone gives him.
Also, "rapture," the english word, is not in any translation that I know of. However, it is based upon the Greek word, 'arpazo, which is precisely the word Paul uses in 1 Thess 4:17. Most english versions translate it as "caught up." "Raptured" could be used interchangeably with "caught up."
Having said all that, when giving messages, I do not use the english word "rapture," precisely because of this confusion. I simply say "caught up." It's easier to defend when people question what I'm teaching.
I serously doubt that members of the EU will war with each other going forward, they are too well integrated.
consider for hought:
IF / when The U.N. is finally given an independant funding stream, it will become an unbridled beast. It is currently a bridled beast, corrupt and nearly unacountable but limited in ability due to its dependance on the U.S. for money.
The UN security council with 5 permanent membership and 5 revolving membership ie 10 seats of power, or 10 horns.
One of security council members will war on 3 others causing them to lose their seats on the council...
This scenario does not fit the Bible. Let me explain. If you look at Revelation 16:12-16, where it describes who is going to be invited to this battle it says this:
"And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared."
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
There are two things that you need to look at. #1 - The Euphrates River. That this river is dried up is significant because there's no way the Asian nations can take part in the final battle with it in the way. It's just too deep and big for them to cross. #2 - The spirits "go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."
So we see from these passages that the entire world will be involved in this last battle for the 1000 reign of Christ. It isn't just Islam and the islamic nations.
Now, if you look at passages in Ezekiel, specifically 38 & 39, the nations involved in this war are vastly different. The nations mentioned in this war are: Gog, Magog, Meshech and Tubal, Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya, Gomer, and Togarmah. These nations are pretty much all islamic, and if they aren't they soon will be. Of course we're talking about Russia, Iran, Libya, Turkey, Afghanistan, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, possibly even Germany and France. These are all islamic nations, nothing more, and their chief leader is Russia. We all know Russia has been stocking nations like Iran, Syria and Lebanon with arms preparing for this war.
God supernaturally intervenes in this war and destroys those nations who take part, leaving only 1/6th of the population alive. It would be utterly impossible for some Islamic messiah to rise from the ashes, sort to speak, if the those nations have been destroyed.
And something else to think about. When will this war take place? It can't logically take place at the beginning of the Tribulation because the Israelites are said to be "burning the weapons for 7 years." They can't be going out from their homes and doing that when the second half of the Tribulation begins and the Israelites are fleeing for their lives. It can't be after the Tribulation. So logically it would have to occur before the Tribulation and possibly even the Rapture of the Church, which means we could quite possibly see this war happen.
So there's my take on this whole matter. Rosenberg is great to listen to and his books are phenomenal, but I believe he has this part wrong.
Yeah, sure. We've heard it all before. First it was the Common Market. The futurist prophecy gurus like Hal Lindsey were all agog about the possibilities for Jesus’ return Real Soon Now® back in the ‘80s when the Common Market approached 10 nations. Then it shot past 10 nations without stopping to catch its breath. Then there was the European Economic Community. Same nonsense from the futurists. Now what is the EU up to, like 27 countries? And what do we get? More nonsense. “Oh, we’re sorry, we meant the ten kings/toes, etc means ten MAJOR nations. We must have missed that the first time we dreamed this stuff up. ‘Core Europe” yeah, that’s the ticket. WEU, does that get us the theory we need? For the moment?”
Of course the Bible does not support such nonsense. The futurists are making it all up as they go along.
And all they are left with is more twisted claims and unsubstantiated theorizing about these “clear end times prophecies” of futurism.
It’s a sham, my friend. Folks who truly know their Bible can see right through it. They are not suckered in to the “just wait and see” approach of futurists. The only thing that futurists can manage is to change their tune on cue when current events take a right turn.
There has also been discussion on FR about a pre-Gog war that takes out Islam close to Israel, like Syria, so that Israel can be at peace before Gog Magog.
So many so often try to conflate “end-times” prophecy with a rapid succession of near-future events and a single “anti-Christ.” If Islam fits the bill (and it does to a great degree), then Mohammed, himself, is the dark prophet. He regarded himself greater than Christ; he called himself simply “The Prophet;” His followers unleashed the Black Death, which killed one-third of humanity; and his followers conquered one-third of humanity. Further, much of Islam is an outgrowth and radicalization of a heresy already present within the Church during the apostolic age.
Josephus wouldn’t necessarily be terribly knowledgeable of Ezekiel’s or Isaiah’s meanings, but he was a contemporary of John of Revelation. That means that whatever Josephus’ *understanding* of these names was, that understanding was quite possibly shared by John’s audience.
Gog, Magog =? Scythians =? Ukranians? or Turks?
Meschech = Moscow?
Tubal = N. Africa or Iberia, which is Spain and Portugal)
Persia = Iran
Ethiopia = Northeastern Africa, not necessarily the modern nation of Ethiopia.
Gomer = Turkey
Togarmah = the Caucasus (Armenia, Georgia or Chechnya). Is this why you mention Afghanistan?
Not sure why Germany and France get pulled into this by you; there’s plainly no candidate for refering to them.
Gog and Magog could also simply represent the furthest reaches North, in which case one could suppose they could refer to Northern Russia, instead of the region just South of Russia. Could the scripture use those names to represent the Rus (even though the meaning at the time clearly was not the Rus)? Could Russia be described by the Rus, the Moscovites, and the Caucasians?
Minus your seemingly unsubstantiated of Germany and France, these nations listed seem to suggest an alliance of Russian and Muslim nations, strangely reminiscent of the old Cold War, and curiously missing Arabia, Iraq, etc. Are they absent because of U.S. influence?
What about a pre-Gog war with Israel?
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