Posted on 09/20/2009 2:46:15 PM PDT by Colofornian
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Sharing testimonies is an important part of the Latter-day Saint experience. We bear testimonies in many settings — in the home with family and among friends and associates or in missionary experiences. In Church, one Sunday is set aside every month for the bearing of testimonies during sacrament meetings.
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In his address at the October 2004 general conference, Elder M. Russell Ballard of the Quorum of the Twelve...said that his experience throughout the Church leads him to worry that too many members' testimonies linger on "I am thankful," and "I love," and too few are able to say with humble but sincere clarity, "I know." As a result, he noted, meetings sometimes lack the testimony-rich, spiritual underpinnings that stir the soul and have meaningful, positive impact on the lives of all those who hear them.
He...counseled, "We need to replace stories, travelogues and lectures with pure testimonies. Those who are entrusted to speak and teach in our meetings need to do so with doctrinal power that will be both heard and felt, lifting the spirits and edifying our people."
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As we listen to general conference this October, we will hear many bear pure testimony. Numerous times over the years, we have heard President Thomas S. Monson, first as an apostle and now as president of the Church, bear such testimony. May we, as Primary children sing, be inclined to "follow the prophet" in our endeavor to nurture, strengthen and share our testimonies that we have a Heavenly Father who loves us, that Jesus is the Christ, Joseph Smith was the prophet who was raised up to restore the fullness of the everlasting gospel...
(Excerpt) Read more at ldschurchnews.com ...
So, not all that believe in Christ will be saved in your opinion. In other words, unless they teach & follow correct principles (WORKS), they are not in Christ & can't be saved. Even if it is their true belief that what they're doing is right, that Christ is their savior, they teach that Christ is their savior & Atoned for their sins? Even if they believe in the Trinity, the Bible, the words of the prophets, etc....., even if they really believe that their interpretations of the Bible are correct in regards to homosexuality, etc., Still no dice for them?
All because they don't believe in some of the doctrines as you do? I thought you folks believed that ALL were saved that sincerely believed. You mean there are works involved, like teaching & living correct principles? Who would have known? :0
BTW, faith does proceed works. That doesn't necessarily mean that works aren't necessary. Again, why the commandments if all that was necessary was faith. If works were a natural byproduct of faith, why make works a commandment? It should already be there right?
That's not what he said. Please read for comprehension.
Oh Godzilla. Unlike you folks who believe there is more than one true church even though the doctrines may vary greatly, we believe there is one true church, thus your red herring about the FLDS church falls completely flat.
I’ve already spent far more time on this than I have time. My best to you & yours.
So, what say you? Are those preachers that sincerely preach & live homosexuality saved? They truly believe in what they’re doing. They believe in the Lord. Are they saved in your OPINION?
I look forward to reading your response later.
I say "practicing" because we all have our weaknesses. For some it may be homosexuality. For others--porn, money, sex, power....
If one truly believes in the Word, then one knows that it speaks against homosexuality. Therefore, do not practice it. If these preachers that you bring up are both preaching and practicing, they are not saved, and are probably leading their followers astray.
Profession of salvation is different than actually believing in Christ.
(a) You usually claim, "Well, that's non Mormon canon."
Interesting, just earlier in this thread DU claimed that the temple endowment ceremony was published and official mormon canon - yet I still haven't found where that ceremony is documented in the 4 standard works.
King Follett sermon . . .
I can almost hear the voices of the mormon apologists now . . it is not canonized. . . . The fundamental and foundational doctrine of mormonism is not canonized. Imagine that.
DU - you've touted that mormonism has a prophet - Do you deny these teachings regarding the words of your prophets?
"The Lord has given some marvelous guarantees without any disclaimers. And this is one of them: He will choose the prophet, and He will never let that man lead us astray. Imagine for a moment the impact of that promise. There is at least one place we can turn for pure, unpolluted guidance." (Spencer W. Kimball, October 1998 General Conference) And where are the words of these prophets recorded? Journal of Discourses for one, published and controlled by the mormon church.
DU, it's so funny you've railed against the Trinity in this thread when on post #84 you said, "Jesus is my only god" when Mormonism teaches rampant polytheism!!! [The belief that many gods exist]
How did I miss this statement? I've have been told and read that the only one of the gods worshiped by mormons is heavenly father. That this is heavenly father's world and as his children, we are to worship him and not our brother Jesus. Is not the proper mormon formula "worship the Father in Jesus’ name"
Speaking of red-herrings, you reply smells like one. There is only one Church - the Body composed of many members (denominations if you please).
we believe there is one true church, thus your red herring about the FLDS church falls completely flat.
Oh really, tell me what they do not believe? They practice D&C 132 as it was taught by Smith and Young, as an eternal law. Mainstream lds caved to pressures and changed their practices not their doctines. If mainstream lds reject polygamy, why haven't they taken Sect 132 out of D&C?
Just a quick one.
So not all that believe will be saved? I’ve talked to one of these preachers & he sincerely believes in the Lord as much as anyone I’ve met. So he doesn’t qualify for grace b/c of his lack of WORKS (heterosexuality)? Because his interpretation is wrong? Is that what you’re saying?
He believes & teaches right out of the Bible. Interesting.
I can’t help it! One more.
“There is only one Church - the Body composed of many members (denominations if you please).”
There were many Apostles as well, 12 to be exact. Was it okay for them to teach & believe different doctrines as long as they believed in the Lord?
Does it really make sense to you that the Lord would be at the head of all these churches & allow such a variance of doctrines? Is that what He taught while here? Is that what the Apostles taught? Is that what the Bible teaches? If you believe so, please site definitive evidence in the Bible where it states it would be okay for his churches to teach completely different doctrines. Please.
I look forward to your response later.
Again--you are not reading for comprehension. Profession of faith is different than real faith.
I can't pass judgment on someone third-hand. I don't know him or his heart, or what he's actually teaching. Given that you cannot accurately quote someone on this thread, I cannot trust that he's actually teaching the Bible.
BTW, one last note. If it is okay to have all these different doctrines, why all the wars between Christians over the centuries like in Ireland even today? They all thought they were doing the Lord’s will by killing their fellow Christians in the Name of Christ!
What were the wars about by in large? Doctrine! How could that be?
The church teaches its members to emulate the Savior in doing good to others. Some service takes place within the church membership, and other services are offered through non-sectarian humanitarian service. Following are some articles on the church’s program to follow in the Savior’s footsteps.
Reno,
ShadowAce is correct. I said, not all who “profess” to be in Christ are.
Mat 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, “Lord, Lord,” shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, “Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?”
23 And then I will declare to them, “I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.”
Does it matter if he’s acurately teaching the Bible as long as he believes? If so, doesn’t that mean he must perform the right works?
Reno, I recognize that you may interpret the passage in my previous post to assume that works are required to enter the kingdom, so I must add the following...
A person who trusts in Christ alone obeys completely the will of the Father to believe in Jesus Christ alone for eternal salvation. Such a person obtains absolute perfection before God [positionally speaking] since Christ takes away all of his sins and gives him His righteousness in exchange (2 Cor. 5:21; Col. 2:13-14; Heb. 10:1-18). And, such a person can be 100% sure of his salvation since he can know with certainty that he has done the will of the Father (in relation to the gospel) once and for all (cf. John 3:16; 5:24; Rom. 8:38-39; 1 John 5:13).
Acts 5:32 and Acts 6:7 also refer to believing the gospel as an act of obedience to God.
This passage, rather than supporting the Lordship Salvation or Works Salvation positions, actually contradicts them. Probably many of those who will say “Lord, Lord have we not prophesied, cast out demons, and done many wonders in Your name” are people who in this life were pastors, evangelists, missionaries, and the like. They may have baptized many, prayed and witnessed much, and done what they thought were many deeds which made them think that they were probably saved. Notice that Jesus does not question whether they actually did such deeds. Yet He rebukes them for not doing the Father’s will and He denies them kingdom entrance. Those who do not believe in Christ alone for their salvation have failed to do the will of the Father.
Depends upon what specifically you meant by that. Did they teach temple endowments? No. Did they teach a works based salvation? No. Did they teach Jesus was an elder brother (ontologically)? No. Did they teach any of the counter-Christian doctrines espoused by the lds church? No.
Does it really make sense to you that the Lord would be at the head of all these churches & allow such a variance of doctrines?
Sure, read 1 Cor 12 a little closer and in detail. Would the 'lord' allow variance in the mormon doctrine either? There are multiple mormon religions out there?
Fundamentals Reno. Those fundamental beliefs are summarized in statements like the Apostles Creed and Nicea. There are few churches that would not accept either as the fundamental definition of what Christians and Christian Churchs believe. Mormonism needs to check its own dirty diapers before casting aspersions upon the diversity granted by Christ to His church.
And the Danites killed exmormons who rejected the "principle", argued and fought with the RLDS over Smith's successor, killed innocent pioneers at Mtn. Meadows - all in the name of mormonism. People may CLAIM they are following what the bible says in your stated instances - but that does not mean that they are correctly appling it for themselves now does it. And if you bothered to research N. Ireland, you would find the fighting more political than religionious - the only parallel is that the politics broke along religious lines.
Wars were also about power, and power corrupts. Are you claiming those who prompted war to be clean and spotless? No, corrupt men will corrupt the scripture to meet their corrupt means to an end. But then smith never ordered a newspaper burned down because of DOCTRINE either, did he (crickets)
Not to be sidetracked; but you are a MORMON; so maybe YOU could tell us what DU can't - namely...
What did Joseph SMith learn to be UNtrue about PRESBYTERIANism?
Faith. Where do you place your faith. Is it in Christ? Or is it in the works and ordinances of your organization. Be careful. It is THE most important question.
In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.
1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.
I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.
Ezra Taft Benson
(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)
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