Posted on 09/13/2009 11:48:38 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
(This is an update of a study I first posted in Nov. 2003)
Those who labor to understand the nuances of the battle described in Ezekiel 38-39 quickly identify two major puzzles. One is the timing of the battle and the other is the identity of Gog, from Magog. Suffice it to say here that almost no scholar, certainly none I’m aware of, believes the battle of Ezekiel 38-39 has already taken place. Some believe it will occur just before the beginning of Daniel’s 70th Week, while others believe Ezekiel is actually describing the Battle of Armageddon, which would put it at the end of the Great Tribulation. But all place it sometime in our future.
In my opinion, there are several reasons why Ezekiel 38 can’t be part of the Armageddon scenario. First, only some nations are involved in Ezekiel 38. For example, Saudi Arabia and Western Europe are said to be on the sidelines observing and others you would expect to see, like Egypt and Jordan, are not mentioned at all, although both appear later on. But Zechariah 12:3 says that in preparation for the Battle of Armageddon all the nations of the Earth will come against Jerusalem.
Second, how is Israel going to burn the left over weapons for 7 years as Ezekiel 39:9 indicates unless there are 7 years left in which to burn them? Rev. 21:24. says the nations will walk by the light of the New Jerusalem in the Millennium, so they won’t need fuel for energy then. And then you have Ezekiel 38:11 telling us that Israel will be a peaceful and unsuspecting people when the Moslem coalition strikes. Could that be possible near the end of the Great Tribulation when all the nations are gathering to attack? I don’t think so.
But most importantly, Daniel’s 70th week can’t start until Israel is back in covenant with God and the battle of Ezekiel 38 is what causes the covenant to be re-instated. (Ezek. 39:22) Armageddon comes at the end of Daniel’s 70th week, not the beginning.
As for Gog and Magog, the first thing to note is that while Magog is listed in Genesis 10, Gog is not. The list of 70 names in Genesis 10 is often called the Table of Nations because each of the men named there was the original ancestor of an ethnic group that grew to become a nation of people. For instance, Magog was the 2nd son of Japeth, one of Noah’s three sons, and bore the children who in time became known to the ancient world as the Scythians. They lived in central Asia and are believed to be the forefathers of today’s Russians. Many historical references support this view. For example, Josephus Flavius wrote “Magog founded the Magogians, thus named after him, but who were by the Greeks called Scythians.” And in some ancient Arabic documents, the Great Wall of China is called the Ramparts of Gog and Magog. It was built to keep the Scythians out of China.
So while the Russian people of today are likely descended from Magog, there is no such biological connection for Gog to either Magog or any other ethnic group. There is an unrelated mention of a man named Gog, a grandson of Reuben, in 1 Chronicles 5:4 but there doesn’t seem to be any connection between him and the land of Magog either. Clearly, while Magog refers to the millions of his descendants in today’s Russia, Gog remains a single individual.
Some say he’s a king or leader, and in a real sense I think that’s true but I don’t believe he’s of the human variety. The time spanned by his three appearances in scripture make that impossible.
The first one is in the first verse of Amos 7, but you have to be reading Amos from the Septuigent translation to see it. There, Gog is identified as a king, but of a swarm of locusts. To further shroud him in mystery Proverbs 30:27 states that locusts have no king, and observers of locust swarms agree that no obvious leader directs them, as a queen would direct a hive of bees for example. The swarm of locusts led by Gog in Amos 7:1-2 was symbolic of a judgment that was to come upon the Northern Kingdom, but the Lord relented because of Amos’ intercession.
(This hint also lends insight to another appearance of locusts, by the way. I’m referring to the one in Revelation 9, where a swarm of locusts comes out of the Abyss to afflict those on Earth who lack the seal of God on their foreheads. These locusts have a king named Abaddon in the Hebrew or Appolyon in the Greek. Here again, the Proverbs passage would indicate that these locusts are of supernatural origin like the ones in Amos 7, not ordinary locusts.)
The next time Gog’s mentioned is in Ezekiel 38:1, where he is called by name as the leader of a coalition of what are now primarily Moslem nations attacking Israel. His final mention comes from the Book of Revelation where he again leads the people from Magog against the Lord’s army at the end of the Millennium (Rev. 20:8).
Even if you’re among those who place the battle of Ezekiel 38 at the end of the Great Tribulation, the span of time between Gog’s last two biblical appearances is at least 1000 years, and while I believe that some born in that era will have long life spans, there isn’t any indication that natural humans born before the Millennium begins will live to see its end. This is especially true of God’s enemies, since all surviving unbelievers are removed from Earth at the beginning of our Lord’s reign.
So I’ve come to the conclusion that Gog is a supernatural figure. The Bible clearly states that behind the human seats of government stand supernatural figures manipulating the thoughts and actions of the world’s leaders. These figures are in Satan’s employ, helping in his effort to wrest ownership of Planet Earth from its Creator. Gog is at least the supernatural figure behind the throne of Russia, and perhaps is even Satan’s counterpart to the Archangel Michael, who commands the Lord’s armies.
In Daniel 10:13 Michael is identified as one of the Lord’s chief princes who in 536 BC came to Daniel’s aid in a supernatural struggle with the Prince of Persia, a nation barely emerging on the world scene having conquered Babylon just three years earlier. At its conclusion Michael told Daniel that he’d soon be battling the Prince of Greece, a nation that didn’t even exist at the time. In Daniel 12:1 we’re told he’ll protect Israel at the end of the age. And in Rev 12:7 he’s seen leading the angelic host in a great battle in heaven when Satan is defeated there and cast down to Earth at the outset of the Great Tribulation. Michael is clearly a supernatural warrior leaping across the pages of history in defense of the Lord’s interests. It makes sense that Satan would have a military commander leading his forces as well, since everything he does seems to mirror the actions of his Creator. With his multiple mentions in Scripture and the long span of time between appearances, Gog could easily be this commander.
Only time will tell if this view is correct. But one of the great advantages of living in our day is that we won’t have long to wait till we find out. You can almost hear the footsteps of the Messiah. 09-12-09
Love it . . . MORE BRAZENLY RUBBER BIBLE:
2) the radical distinction between Israel and the Church,
ABSOLUTELY NO RADICAL distinction at all.
. . . except for RUBBER BILISTS . . .
AUTHENTIC BIBLE FOLKS recognize Scripture plainly written as plainly written Scripture clearly saying what it means and meaning what it says.
We realize, however, that REPLACMENTARIAN et al RUBBER BIBLISTS march to a different drummer . . . the one that has that curious cadence from hell.
from the Hebrew
4031
Magog = "land of Gog"
1) the 2nd son of Japheth, grandson of Noah, and progenitor of several tribes northward from Israel
Genesis 6:10
And Noah begot three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
Also, remember Gog and Magog.
Revelation 20:
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
I think the camp of the saints and the beloved city are Jerusalem. Israel is surrounded by Arabs/Muslims.
The battle of Gog and Magog isn't between Gog and Magog. It looks to me like Gog and Magog join forces.
from the Greek
3098 Magog mag-ogue' of Hebrew origin (4031); Magog, a foreign nation, i.e. (figuratively) an Antichristian party:--Magog.
Magog = "overtopping: covering"
1) a land north of Israel from which the King of Gog will come to attack Israel
Israel is NOT a Christian nation. Gog is going to attack Israel because it is a Jewish nation, so Gog is an anti-semitic party!!!
Gog 1463 from the Hebrew
Gog = "mountain"
1) a Reubenite, son of Shemaiah
2) the prophetic prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal, and Magog
Gog 1136 from the Greek
Gog = "mountain"
1) the king of the land of Magog who will come from the north and attack the land of Israel
There is nothing self-evident in the argument.
= = = =
AGREED . . . at least for the REPLACEMENTARIANS et al who seem to have a genetic incapacity/unwillingness to see or hear the plain Word of Almmighty God.
I’m quite inclined to agree with you.
Your paradoxical confirmations of THE TRUTH
are quite welcome.
Thanks.
Wellllllllll, TopCat . . .
Not sure what your beef is, but I did not write what you the quoted above.
Otherwise ... we now send you back to your fantasy world ...
Judaism, and the House of Judah has been miraculously preserved against all odds (what a miracle that is in and of itself) for a purpose. The Prophecy proclaims their purpose. They stand as a witness before the world. They are the witness of the Covenant of Moses.
They were set apart by Jehovah for that purpose. The New Testament proclaims it. Their blindness to their Messiah was purposeful, so that the whole world would be saved. They will ALL see “Him whom they have pierced” and be converted. They WILL become ONE with Ephraim both as a nation and in spirit before the end.
If that is a “radical distinction between Israel and the Church”, then so be it. I don’t see it that way.
= = =
INDEED.
Though . . . if that’s a “radical” distinction . . .
then I’m Moses’ teleprompter.
Speaking of ET, he’s on the line for you and he wants his hat back …
Have you seen the earthquakes popping up right and left today?
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/
Christ appearED at the END of the dispensation 2000 years ago?
=================
What a riot!
Even the secular press calls this the CHRISTIAN . . .
. . . drum roll . . .
ERA . . . which
BEGAN with Christ . . .
LOL.
Cute.
I wonder if REPLACEMENTARIANS et al have regular target practice shoots just to be sure they always hit their targets when shooting themselves in the foot.
AHHHHH my mistake.
I was a bit shocked to think that you were now supporting ET as a matter of RUBBER BIBLE’d UNDERSTANDING.
Would be easier to tell sometimes . . . if you’d use color!
As usual, they are chronic liars.
No. I haven’t.
Had and still have my nose to several grindstones!
Will check it out.
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; (Heb. 1)It’s follishness to argue with the Bible.26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. (Heb. 9)
The foolishness is to tell God
ALMIGHTY GOD, AT THAT
THAT HE CANNOT
use 2,000 years as soon in His dictionary.
I think the cartoons are wonderful.
It should help that blood-pressure thing.
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