Posted on 09/13/2009 11:48:38 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
(This is an update of a study I first posted in Nov. 2003)
Those who labor to understand the nuances of the battle described in Ezekiel 38-39 quickly identify two major puzzles. One is the timing of the battle and the other is the identity of Gog, from Magog. Suffice it to say here that almost no scholar, certainly none I’m aware of, believes the battle of Ezekiel 38-39 has already taken place. Some believe it will occur just before the beginning of Daniel’s 70th Week, while others believe Ezekiel is actually describing the Battle of Armageddon, which would put it at the end of the Great Tribulation. But all place it sometime in our future.
In my opinion, there are several reasons why Ezekiel 38 can’t be part of the Armageddon scenario. First, only some nations are involved in Ezekiel 38. For example, Saudi Arabia and Western Europe are said to be on the sidelines observing and others you would expect to see, like Egypt and Jordan, are not mentioned at all, although both appear later on. But Zechariah 12:3 says that in preparation for the Battle of Armageddon all the nations of the Earth will come against Jerusalem.
Second, how is Israel going to burn the left over weapons for 7 years as Ezekiel 39:9 indicates unless there are 7 years left in which to burn them? Rev. 21:24. says the nations will walk by the light of the New Jerusalem in the Millennium, so they won’t need fuel for energy then. And then you have Ezekiel 38:11 telling us that Israel will be a peaceful and unsuspecting people when the Moslem coalition strikes. Could that be possible near the end of the Great Tribulation when all the nations are gathering to attack? I don’t think so.
But most importantly, Daniel’s 70th week can’t start until Israel is back in covenant with God and the battle of Ezekiel 38 is what causes the covenant to be re-instated. (Ezek. 39:22) Armageddon comes at the end of Daniel’s 70th week, not the beginning.
As for Gog and Magog, the first thing to note is that while Magog is listed in Genesis 10, Gog is not. The list of 70 names in Genesis 10 is often called the Table of Nations because each of the men named there was the original ancestor of an ethnic group that grew to become a nation of people. For instance, Magog was the 2nd son of Japeth, one of Noah’s three sons, and bore the children who in time became known to the ancient world as the Scythians. They lived in central Asia and are believed to be the forefathers of today’s Russians. Many historical references support this view. For example, Josephus Flavius wrote “Magog founded the Magogians, thus named after him, but who were by the Greeks called Scythians.” And in some ancient Arabic documents, the Great Wall of China is called the Ramparts of Gog and Magog. It was built to keep the Scythians out of China.
So while the Russian people of today are likely descended from Magog, there is no such biological connection for Gog to either Magog or any other ethnic group. There is an unrelated mention of a man named Gog, a grandson of Reuben, in 1 Chronicles 5:4 but there doesn’t seem to be any connection between him and the land of Magog either. Clearly, while Magog refers to the millions of his descendants in today’s Russia, Gog remains a single individual.
Some say he’s a king or leader, and in a real sense I think that’s true but I don’t believe he’s of the human variety. The time spanned by his three appearances in scripture make that impossible.
The first one is in the first verse of Amos 7, but you have to be reading Amos from the Septuigent translation to see it. There, Gog is identified as a king, but of a swarm of locusts. To further shroud him in mystery Proverbs 30:27 states that locusts have no king, and observers of locust swarms agree that no obvious leader directs them, as a queen would direct a hive of bees for example. The swarm of locusts led by Gog in Amos 7:1-2 was symbolic of a judgment that was to come upon the Northern Kingdom, but the Lord relented because of Amos’ intercession.
(This hint also lends insight to another appearance of locusts, by the way. I’m referring to the one in Revelation 9, where a swarm of locusts comes out of the Abyss to afflict those on Earth who lack the seal of God on their foreheads. These locusts have a king named Abaddon in the Hebrew or Appolyon in the Greek. Here again, the Proverbs passage would indicate that these locusts are of supernatural origin like the ones in Amos 7, not ordinary locusts.)
The next time Gog’s mentioned is in Ezekiel 38:1, where he is called by name as the leader of a coalition of what are now primarily Moslem nations attacking Israel. His final mention comes from the Book of Revelation where he again leads the people from Magog against the Lord’s army at the end of the Millennium (Rev. 20:8).
Even if you’re among those who place the battle of Ezekiel 38 at the end of the Great Tribulation, the span of time between Gog’s last two biblical appearances is at least 1000 years, and while I believe that some born in that era will have long life spans, there isn’t any indication that natural humans born before the Millennium begins will live to see its end. This is especially true of God’s enemies, since all surviving unbelievers are removed from Earth at the beginning of our Lord’s reign.
So I’ve come to the conclusion that Gog is a supernatural figure. The Bible clearly states that behind the human seats of government stand supernatural figures manipulating the thoughts and actions of the world’s leaders. These figures are in Satan’s employ, helping in his effort to wrest ownership of Planet Earth from its Creator. Gog is at least the supernatural figure behind the throne of Russia, and perhaps is even Satan’s counterpart to the Archangel Michael, who commands the Lord’s armies.
In Daniel 10:13 Michael is identified as one of the Lord’s chief princes who in 536 BC came to Daniel’s aid in a supernatural struggle with the Prince of Persia, a nation barely emerging on the world scene having conquered Babylon just three years earlier. At its conclusion Michael told Daniel that he’d soon be battling the Prince of Greece, a nation that didn’t even exist at the time. In Daniel 12:1 we’re told he’ll protect Israel at the end of the age. And in Rev 12:7 he’s seen leading the angelic host in a great battle in heaven when Satan is defeated there and cast down to Earth at the outset of the Great Tribulation. Michael is clearly a supernatural warrior leaping across the pages of history in defense of the Lord’s interests. It makes sense that Satan would have a military commander leading his forces as well, since everything he does seems to mirror the actions of his Creator. With his multiple mentions in Scripture and the long span of time between appearances, Gog could easily be this commander.
Only time will tell if this view is correct. But one of the great advantages of living in our day is that we won’t have long to wait till we find out. You can almost hear the footsteps of the Messiah. 09-12-09
Wellllllllllllllllllllllllll, I guess we will all know, when the LORD God Almighty decides it’s time to judge the whole country. Myself, I hope I am like Lot, going to safety, and not like Lot’s wife, who looked back and turned into a pillar of salt.
Daniel Eggers, Aug. 25
http://www.prayersforthepeople.com/id135.html
Yes, that is touched upon (to a degree) in the link I left above:
Focus on Jerusalem.com: "Israel And The Fig Tree" by Darrell G. Young
...Though it focuses more upon the two harvests... Pretty good article.
As I said earlier it is necessary to study the literal horticulture of the planting and the method the fruit is pollinated of a good to eat type of fig. There are some figs that are not fit for food.
Perhaps that is due to your preconceptions on the topic, rather than the text itself.
No, I would suggest it is due to the self evident nature of the topic - It rather goes without saying for the most part. Of all people, I am hardly one to be accused of having preconceptions, having rejected most everything from Catholicism, Protestantism, and etcetera.
For example, take the passage above, Rev. 15:3 and explain how you come to your conclusion. This will demonstrate to all what presuppositions we must adopt in order to arrive at your conclusions.
Here's the passage in it's context:
(e-Sword:KJV)
Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
Rev 15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvelous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
Rev 15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.
Here's my brief comment on the verse:
Revelation 15:3 Two songs, one for the Jews, and one for the Church.
The point being that Moses and Christ are represented - Both Covenants, Law and Grace, the whole enchilada.
How I arrive at that conclusion is by the preponderance of the evidence in the Word and in the Prophecy. As the last book in the Bible, it is quite easy to come to this conclusion by the time one gets to it, if it's literal context isn't enough.
One must only read the Book, and study what it says.
What do you suppose it means?
And out of all those verses, you point to one? Out of everything I posted, this is what you center on?
Hmmm. I must admit, my patience waxes thin. I am happy to reply decently to our FRiend, but if I take the time to do so, with enough scripture to flesh out the idea, I would expect a reply in kind.
We are all grown ups here, pretty conversant with the various theories, and while I admit that mine are a bit outside the norm, they are not far fetched in the main part
Milk or meat... I have been a carnivore for many years. ;)
Quix, Would it be accurate to say Obama muslims and replacementarians are all in agreement about Israel contrary to God’s word?
WELL PUT.
THANKS.
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
PRAY FOR THE PEACE OF JERUSALEM.
I pray for The Lord’s visions, dreams, visitations of Jesus and His Salvation to the Muslims in D.C. today . . . even in daylight in the midst of the mass meetings—to all those who truly seek after God Almighty.
And, that the rest that have no serious interest in God and are beyond hope eternally—may they fall in the pit they have dug and become violently combative with each other. May they destroy each other before they destroy others.
Well done. Very well done.
This I think is particularly true:
In striking down the hapless fig, Jesus was symbolically removing the authority of the priesthood that he was soon to replace, and predicting the destiny of the state of Israel in the time of the Gentiles, soon to come.
Please elaborate.
Please educate, edify and enlighten us. I’m sure you’re right.
INDEED.
Holding on to anything of the earth, the flesh, the devil, the past, past hurts, past angers, past unforgiveness, past resentments, past bitterness, past low self-worth, past hostility, past patterns, past self-righteousness, past self-justification, past idolatries, past excuses, past self-pity, past rationalizations, past retaliation patterns, past less than saintly emotions, . . . could be deadly to any of us.
Placed in a well maintained gloriously flowering garden . . . some folks will not see the flowers and instead focus on the fertilizer and slug droppings.
I think this part is well put and most certainly extremely true. Folks who miss the truth of it miss the Truth of Scripture and an extremely high priority of God’s:
Here’s my brief comment on the verse:
Revelation 15:3 Two songs, one for the Jews, and one for the Church.
The point being that Moses and Christ are represented - Both Covenants, Law and Grace, the whole enchilada.
How I arrive at that conclusion is by the preponderance of the evidence in the Word and in the Prophecy. As the last book in the Bible, it is quite easy to come to this conclusion by the time one gets to it, if it’s literal context isn’t enough.
One must only read the Book, and study what it says.
I have found that wait to be a futile
waiting for Gadot
with most of these characters. They seem to have absolutely no interest in the Truth of UNRubberized Scripture nor even in UnRubberized logic or history or dictionaries.
I have resisted agreeing with many who assert that their stuff comes straight and willfully from the pit but I am reluctantly forced to conclude that that seems to be quite the case. Satan has been seducing folks into believing that God didn’t REALLY SAY what He CERTAINLY DID SAY since satan’s tempting Eve in the garden. This is just another pile of stinking seductions toward the notion that God’s promises are not everlasting and not dependable.
WHAT HORRIFIC LIES FROM HELL!
Except for using such as foils to speak truth to the lurkers about the horrific lies profferec, I’d likely be tempted to shake the dust off, too.
I still care for them as fellow humans and as FReepers, for sure and certainly as self described ‘Christians’ . . . and pray they wake up before it’s too late.
However as pontificators of doctrines from hell, I give such no quarter and will fiercely oppose their blasphemous heresies at every quarter God gives me leave and mandate to do so at/with.
They have certainly sounded similarly.
Both have made statements about Israel not having any particular ‘right’ to the Holy Land.
I’m sure God is more or less equally impressed with their disagreement with HIS PERSPECTIVE on that score.
Thankfully, HE DOESN’T HAVE THE SLIGHTEST PROBLEM MAKING SURE HIS WILL WINS OUT.
HOWEVER, WOE TO THOSE who willfully place themselves on the side OPPOSITE TO HIS WILL.
You’d think that ‘Christians’ would be wise about that.
I guess the pollutions of the RUBBER BIBLES make that overwhelmingly difficult.
He is such a dangerous man. I can only believe that God is allowing this for His own purposes, end times. Also, divide Jerusalem and the US may be divided by a huge devastating earthquake. Wake up America.
DREAM OF A FREEPER:
HERE'S a FREEPER'S dream . . . permission to post anonymously . . . PLEASE SHARE ANY INTERPRETATION YOU HAVE.
Before 9/11 I had a dream. In it I had a quarter in my hand. On one side was an eagle. On the other side the words were: “the angels blushed at the eagle’s infidelity”. Now I thought it was really odd because I never dream about politics. I wrote it down, and could not figure out what it meant. No way to interpret it. Then 9/11 happened, and wondered about the root word—infidel. Probably nothing..but just odd. On the other hand the Bible tells us that God’s children will have visions etc.. So to pray for them to happen is good, it’s supported by Scripture.
No, Dear Heart, it's NOT 'nothing.'
Please share any insights, discernments or interpretation you might be able to offer.
Thanks for the post Joya. Judgment is indeed coming, even at the doorstep. Blessings and Shalom over you and your entire household.
A FREEPER in the PNW just let me know that he’s convinced God is going to bring a cleansing, purifying beginning around 11 Oct . . . 11, 12, 13 . . .
Interesting timing given the Pastor’s conviction about the nuke in DC on the 11th.
LiteKeeper . . . re forgetting things gone by . . .
That has been SUCH A PERSISTENT MSG from so many directions . . . I dare not ignore it.
Of course, remembering what God has done for us is likely edifying.
However, we end to build altars to all kinds of things, attachments to all kinds of things . . . affections for all kinds of things . . .
And God is taking us ON, TO NEW PLACES IN HIM . . .
OUT WITH THE OLD, IN WITH THE NEW.
HE DOESN’T WANT us wedded to the past in any way for any reason WHEN it is the least bit of a hesitation to us about going on AND FOCUSING 100% ON HIM NOW AND WHAT HE’S DOING WITH US NOW.
VERY CRUCIAL.
Ruckman has written a strange tract titled, “Notice! Very Important - What to Do in Case You Miss the Rapture!” Ruckman gives three points. He says in point one, “Don't panic” if you miss the rapture. In point two he says, “Whatever you do, don't take any marks or prints in your forehead or in your hands.” But point three is where his false ideas on salvation come in:
Start working your way to Heaven immediately. In the Tribulation a man must keep the commandments (Rev.14: 12) and keep them “to the end” (Matt. 24: 13). If he doesn't, he loses his salvation (Heb.6: 1-6) and burns in Hell (Heb.10: 26-34). You always believed in works before the Rapture or you would have trusted Christ to save you by grace through faith (Eph.2: 8,9). Now that the Rapture is over, there is no more salvation by grace through faith and you will be given an opportunity to show what a really fine moral character you are. Get to work.14
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