Actually, it is not since you haven't given any indication you have a clue as to what he Bible means when it uses such language.
You probably do think it about Moscow.
Posted on 09/13/2009 11:48:38 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
(This is an update of a study I first posted in Nov. 2003)
Those who labor to understand the nuances of the battle described in Ezekiel 38-39 quickly identify two major puzzles. One is the timing of the battle and the other is the identity of Gog, from Magog. Suffice it to say here that almost no scholar, certainly none I’m aware of, believes the battle of Ezekiel 38-39 has already taken place. Some believe it will occur just before the beginning of Daniel’s 70th Week, while others believe Ezekiel is actually describing the Battle of Armageddon, which would put it at the end of the Great Tribulation. But all place it sometime in our future.
In my opinion, there are several reasons why Ezekiel 38 can’t be part of the Armageddon scenario. First, only some nations are involved in Ezekiel 38. For example, Saudi Arabia and Western Europe are said to be on the sidelines observing and others you would expect to see, like Egypt and Jordan, are not mentioned at all, although both appear later on. But Zechariah 12:3 says that in preparation for the Battle of Armageddon all the nations of the Earth will come against Jerusalem.
Second, how is Israel going to burn the left over weapons for 7 years as Ezekiel 39:9 indicates unless there are 7 years left in which to burn them? Rev. 21:24. says the nations will walk by the light of the New Jerusalem in the Millennium, so they won’t need fuel for energy then. And then you have Ezekiel 38:11 telling us that Israel will be a peaceful and unsuspecting people when the Moslem coalition strikes. Could that be possible near the end of the Great Tribulation when all the nations are gathering to attack? I don’t think so.
But most importantly, Daniel’s 70th week can’t start until Israel is back in covenant with God and the battle of Ezekiel 38 is what causes the covenant to be re-instated. (Ezek. 39:22) Armageddon comes at the end of Daniel’s 70th week, not the beginning.
As for Gog and Magog, the first thing to note is that while Magog is listed in Genesis 10, Gog is not. The list of 70 names in Genesis 10 is often called the Table of Nations because each of the men named there was the original ancestor of an ethnic group that grew to become a nation of people. For instance, Magog was the 2nd son of Japeth, one of Noah’s three sons, and bore the children who in time became known to the ancient world as the Scythians. They lived in central Asia and are believed to be the forefathers of today’s Russians. Many historical references support this view. For example, Josephus Flavius wrote “Magog founded the Magogians, thus named after him, but who were by the Greeks called Scythians.” And in some ancient Arabic documents, the Great Wall of China is called the Ramparts of Gog and Magog. It was built to keep the Scythians out of China.
So while the Russian people of today are likely descended from Magog, there is no such biological connection for Gog to either Magog or any other ethnic group. There is an unrelated mention of a man named Gog, a grandson of Reuben, in 1 Chronicles 5:4 but there doesn’t seem to be any connection between him and the land of Magog either. Clearly, while Magog refers to the millions of his descendants in today’s Russia, Gog remains a single individual.
Some say he’s a king or leader, and in a real sense I think that’s true but I don’t believe he’s of the human variety. The time spanned by his three appearances in scripture make that impossible.
The first one is in the first verse of Amos 7, but you have to be reading Amos from the Septuigent translation to see it. There, Gog is identified as a king, but of a swarm of locusts. To further shroud him in mystery Proverbs 30:27 states that locusts have no king, and observers of locust swarms agree that no obvious leader directs them, as a queen would direct a hive of bees for example. The swarm of locusts led by Gog in Amos 7:1-2 was symbolic of a judgment that was to come upon the Northern Kingdom, but the Lord relented because of Amos’ intercession.
(This hint also lends insight to another appearance of locusts, by the way. I’m referring to the one in Revelation 9, where a swarm of locusts comes out of the Abyss to afflict those on Earth who lack the seal of God on their foreheads. These locusts have a king named Abaddon in the Hebrew or Appolyon in the Greek. Here again, the Proverbs passage would indicate that these locusts are of supernatural origin like the ones in Amos 7, not ordinary locusts.)
The next time Gog’s mentioned is in Ezekiel 38:1, where he is called by name as the leader of a coalition of what are now primarily Moslem nations attacking Israel. His final mention comes from the Book of Revelation where he again leads the people from Magog against the Lord’s army at the end of the Millennium (Rev. 20:8).
Even if you’re among those who place the battle of Ezekiel 38 at the end of the Great Tribulation, the span of time between Gog’s last two biblical appearances is at least 1000 years, and while I believe that some born in that era will have long life spans, there isn’t any indication that natural humans born before the Millennium begins will live to see its end. This is especially true of God’s enemies, since all surviving unbelievers are removed from Earth at the beginning of our Lord’s reign.
So I’ve come to the conclusion that Gog is a supernatural figure. The Bible clearly states that behind the human seats of government stand supernatural figures manipulating the thoughts and actions of the world’s leaders. These figures are in Satan’s employ, helping in his effort to wrest ownership of Planet Earth from its Creator. Gog is at least the supernatural figure behind the throne of Russia, and perhaps is even Satan’s counterpart to the Archangel Michael, who commands the Lord’s armies.
In Daniel 10:13 Michael is identified as one of the Lord’s chief princes who in 536 BC came to Daniel’s aid in a supernatural struggle with the Prince of Persia, a nation barely emerging on the world scene having conquered Babylon just three years earlier. At its conclusion Michael told Daniel that he’d soon be battling the Prince of Greece, a nation that didn’t even exist at the time. In Daniel 12:1 we’re told he’ll protect Israel at the end of the age. And in Rev 12:7 he’s seen leading the angelic host in a great battle in heaven when Satan is defeated there and cast down to Earth at the outset of the Great Tribulation. Michael is clearly a supernatural warrior leaping across the pages of history in defense of the Lord’s interests. It makes sense that Satan would have a military commander leading his forces as well, since everything he does seems to mirror the actions of his Creator. With his multiple mentions in Scripture and the long span of time between appearances, Gog could easily be this commander.
Only time will tell if this view is correct. But one of the great advantages of living in our day is that we won’t have long to wait till we find out. You can almost hear the footsteps of the Messiah. 09-12-09
Aye Aye.
Please pull my offending post(s).
Is there another Quix on FR? Quixie is the king of knee-jerk, rubber-stamped phrases.
Just do a word count on “RUBBER BIBLE,” “RUBBERIZED SILLINESS,” “RUBBER DICTIONARY,” (he seems to have a rubber fetish) and, most especially,“REPLACEMENTARIAN”.
I'd like to know why you react so strongly to someone you don't "expect much from". Why bother at all?
Ask him. He’s the ankle-biter that like to crash threads with resplendent non sequiturs.
OS,
Ain’t it fun when REPLACEMENTARIANS et al
copy some of our terms and phrasing!
What a riot.
It’s not the words I have a problem with, it’s the incoherent way they are strung together into meaningless phases that defy syntactic analysis and are devoid of any semantics.
It's like deconstruction gone wild.
Do not let the thread become “about” any individual Freeper. That is a form of “making it personal.”
LOL.
Perhaps some day, some REPLACMENTARIANS will crawl out of Alice’s rabbit hole sufficiently far and for a sufficiently long enough time to
make use of the UNRUBBERIZED dictionaries & UNRUBBERIZED BIBLES available at various libraries and thereby BEGIN to understand conventional realities.
Otherwise, . . . nice slipping and sliding dodge.
I gather that verse was not in the REPLACEMENTARIAN et al's RUBBER BIBLE?
I've NEVER observed UNRUBBERIZED SCRIPTURE to be incoherent or strung together in meaningless phrases.
I suppose folks used to reading RUBBERIZED BIBLES could QUITE CONCEIVABLY
CONSTRUE RUBBERIZED SCRIPTURES to fit that description. But not those of us used to reading UNrubberized, authentic BIBLES.
Most readers were probably able to understand that the reference in my post was to the Scripture about heaven and earth passing away but not HIS WORD . . . that HIS WORD would be fulfilled to the last minor punctuation point.
To DESCRIBE THAT SCRIPTURE as:
it’s the incoherent way they are strung together into meaningless phases that defy syntactic analysis and are devoid of any semantics.
CERTAINLY indicates some gross incapacities in managing very basic and simple UNRUBBERIZED word meanings and syntax.
Actually, it is not since you haven't given any indication you have a clue as to what he Bible means when it uses such language.
You probably do think it about Moscow.
I know, right?
Well you know what they say... imitation is the highest form of flattery.
Good point! I know that horrid execution method was practiced long before the Romans came along, but how much imagination would it take to describe a person nailed my his hands and feet to a tree? That would be a breeze compared to describing large, flying machines with people in them! I don't think people even started to imagine man could fly until about the 15th. century (Michelangelo).
They didn't actually get something off the ground with an engine (that would sound a lot like “the sound of their wings was like the thundering of many horses and chariots rushing into battle”) until the Wright bothers (1903).
I just got a chill running down my legs, arms, etc.!
Maranatha!!!
Different "world views" maybe.
Naw.
WRONG AGAIN.
Dispensationalists
don’t HAVE to think much at all about
MOST of the UNRUBBERIZED BIBLICAL PROPHECIES.
THEY ARE MOSTLY CLEARLY STATED. WE JUST ACCEPT THEM AS FACT.
Kind of like . . .
“YES, LORD.” Doesn’t really require a LOT of thought
for someone who TRULY LOVES JESUS.
Naw.
In some cases, it’s
DIFFERENT GALACTIC CLUSTERS
VERY far apart.
LOL.
I have felt a kind of subtle to not so subtle
STEELY RESOLVE . . . almost spiritual aggressiveness or some such rise up within me increasingly the last few weeks.
BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.
No, it’s a good thing. Too many people are looking for events in Israel and the Middle East as confirmation of their faulty end times scenario. They’re looking for things like the training of Levites, raising red heifers, and quarrying granite for the new temple as proof they got it right.
You can anticipate His return without getting all wrapped up in the timing of His return, which is known only to Him. Some folks cannot tell the difference.
“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,”
See post 190.
That would be a breeze compared to describing large, flying machines with people in them!
If that were necessary, which is the thing yet to be proved. E.g., I wonder how the Bible would describe Martians or mermaids.
Like his one:
"'Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.' So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released to kill a third of mankind. Now the number of the army of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them. … By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed--by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which came out of their mouths. "
200 million men on horses are going to be able to kill 2 billion+ people? Really?
There is no fact involved in your interpretation, just fantasy.
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