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Finding Gog
Rapturealert.com ^ | 09-12-09 | Jack Kelley

Posted on 09/13/2009 11:48:38 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta

(This is an update of a study I first posted in Nov. 2003)

Those who labor to understand the nuances of the battle described in Ezekiel 38-39 quickly identify two major puzzles. One is the timing of the battle and the other is the identity of Gog, from Magog. Suffice it to say here that almost no scholar, certainly none I’m aware of, believes the battle of Ezekiel 38-39 has already taken place. Some believe it will occur just before the beginning of Daniel’s 70th Week, while others believe Ezekiel is actually describing the Battle of Armageddon, which would put it at the end of the Great Tribulation. But all place it sometime in our future.

In my opinion, there are several reasons why Ezekiel 38 can’t be part of the Armageddon scenario. First, only some nations are involved in Ezekiel 38. For example, Saudi Arabia and Western Europe are said to be on the sidelines observing and others you would expect to see, like Egypt and Jordan, are not mentioned at all, although both appear later on. But Zechariah 12:3 says that in preparation for the Battle of Armageddon all the nations of the Earth will come against Jerusalem.

Second, how is Israel going to burn the left over weapons for 7 years as Ezekiel 39:9 indicates unless there are 7 years left in which to burn them? Rev. 21:24. says the nations will walk by the light of the New Jerusalem in the Millennium, so they won’t need fuel for energy then. And then you have Ezekiel 38:11 telling us that Israel will be a peaceful and unsuspecting people when the Moslem coalition strikes. Could that be possible near the end of the Great Tribulation when all the nations are gathering to attack? I don’t think so.

But most importantly, Daniel’s 70th week can’t start until Israel is back in covenant with God and the battle of Ezekiel 38 is what causes the covenant to be re-instated. (Ezek. 39:22) Armageddon comes at the end of Daniel’s 70th week, not the beginning.

As for Gog and Magog, the first thing to note is that while Magog is listed in Genesis 10, Gog is not. The list of 70 names in Genesis 10 is often called the Table of Nations because each of the men named there was the original ancestor of an ethnic group that grew to become a nation of people. For instance, Magog was the 2nd son of Japeth, one of Noah’s three sons, and bore the children who in time became known to the ancient world as the Scythians. They lived in central Asia and are believed to be the forefathers of today’s Russians. Many historical references support this view. For example, Josephus Flavius wrote “Magog founded the Magogians, thus named after him, but who were by the Greeks called Scythians.” And in some ancient Arabic documents, the Great Wall of China is called the Ramparts of Gog and Magog. It was built to keep the Scythians out of China.

So while the Russian people of today are likely descended from Magog, there is no such biological connection for Gog to either Magog or any other ethnic group. There is an unrelated mention of a man named Gog, a grandson of Reuben, in 1 Chronicles 5:4 but there doesn’t seem to be any connection between him and the land of Magog either. Clearly, while Magog refers to the millions of his descendants in today’s Russia, Gog remains a single individual.

Some say he’s a king or leader, and in a real sense I think that’s true but I don’t believe he’s of the human variety. The time spanned by his three appearances in scripture make that impossible.

The first one is in the first verse of Amos 7, but you have to be reading Amos from the Septuigent translation to see it. There, Gog is identified as a king, but of a swarm of locusts. To further shroud him in mystery Proverbs 30:27 states that locusts have no king, and observers of locust swarms agree that no obvious leader directs them, as a queen would direct a hive of bees for example. The swarm of locusts led by Gog in Amos 7:1-2 was symbolic of a judgment that was to come upon the Northern Kingdom, but the Lord relented because of Amos’ intercession.

(This hint also lends insight to another appearance of locusts, by the way. I’m referring to the one in Revelation 9, where a swarm of locusts comes out of the Abyss to afflict those on Earth who lack the seal of God on their foreheads. These locusts have a king named Abaddon in the Hebrew or Appolyon in the Greek. Here again, the Proverbs passage would indicate that these locusts are of supernatural origin like the ones in Amos 7, not ordinary locusts.)

The next time Gog’s mentioned is in Ezekiel 38:1, where he is called by name as the leader of a coalition of what are now primarily Moslem nations attacking Israel. His final mention comes from the Book of Revelation where he again leads the people from Magog against the Lord’s army at the end of the Millennium (Rev. 20:8).

Even if you’re among those who place the battle of Ezekiel 38 at the end of the Great Tribulation, the span of time between Gog’s last two biblical appearances is at least 1000 years, and while I believe that some born in that era will have long life spans, there isn’t any indication that natural humans born before the Millennium begins will live to see its end. This is especially true of God’s enemies, since all surviving unbelievers are removed from Earth at the beginning of our Lord’s reign.

So I’ve come to the conclusion that Gog is a supernatural figure. The Bible clearly states that behind the human seats of government stand supernatural figures manipulating the thoughts and actions of the world’s leaders. These figures are in Satan’s employ, helping in his effort to wrest ownership of Planet Earth from its Creator. Gog is at least the supernatural figure behind the throne of Russia, and perhaps is even Satan’s counterpart to the Archangel Michael, who commands the Lord’s armies.

In Daniel 10:13 Michael is identified as one of the Lord’s chief princes who in 536 BC came to Daniel’s aid in a supernatural struggle with the Prince of Persia, a nation barely emerging on the world scene having conquered Babylon just three years earlier. At its conclusion Michael told Daniel that he’d soon be battling the Prince of Greece, a nation that didn’t even exist at the time. In Daniel 12:1 we’re told he’ll protect Israel at the end of the age. And in Rev 12:7 he’s seen leading the angelic host in a great battle in heaven when Satan is defeated there and cast down to Earth at the outset of the Great Tribulation. Michael is clearly a supernatural warrior leaping across the pages of history in defense of the Lord’s interests. It makes sense that Satan would have a military commander leading his forces as well, since everything he does seems to mirror the actions of his Creator. With his multiple mentions in Scripture and the long span of time between appearances, Gog could easily be this commander.

Only time will tell if this view is correct. But one of the great advantages of living in our day is that we won’t have long to wait till we find out. You can almost hear the footsteps of the Messiah. 09-12-09


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To: topcat54

It really is a blessing to get some folks’ derision.

Quite an affirmation of UNRUBBERIZED BIBLICAL TRUTH.


101 posted on 09/14/2009 11:55:58 AM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta
The Bible clearly states that behind the human seats of government stand supernatural figures manipulating the thoughts and actions of the world’s leaders. These figures are in Satan’s employ,

Where exactly would we find that?

102 posted on 09/14/2009 11:56:51 AM PDT by topcat54 ("If Israel is 'God's prophetic clock,' then dispensationalists do not know how to tell time.")
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To: wolfcreek; GiovannaNicoletta

Sorry. That post was for GiovannaNicoletta.


103 posted on 09/14/2009 11:58:07 AM PDT by topcat54 ("If Israel is 'God's prophetic clock,' then dispensationalists do not know how to tell time.")
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To: Quix
It really is a blessing to get ...

Well, you ought to feel real blessed seeing how you bring it upon yourself.

104 posted on 09/14/2009 11:59:15 AM PDT by topcat54 ("If Israel is 'God's prophetic clock,' then dispensationalists do not know how to tell time.")
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To: topcat54

The Lord God Almighty has allowed and sent many blessings my way.

That just happens to be one of them . . . however curiously wrapped some think it to be.


105 posted on 09/14/2009 12:04:54 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: topcat54
Whether or not there are actual “horses” used is not really the point. Prophets in Ezekiel's time as well as in the book of Revelation chapter 9, it would be difficult to describe things like jets or Apache helicopters since they had never seen one. They could only describe them in such ways as:
Rev. 9:7
And the shapes of the locusts [were] like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads [were] as it were crowns like gold, and their faces [were] as the faces of men.
Rev. 9:9-10
And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings [was] as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle. And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails...

Read also:

2 Peter 3:10-12 (New King James Version)

The Day of the Lord

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.[a] 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?

Sounds like a nuclear reaction? Just saying, they did the best they could to describe visions they had in ways people could understand. That's how I see it.

106 posted on 09/14/2009 12:13:00 PM PDT by boatbums ("A man who spits in the wind, is spitting in his own face," B. Franklin)
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To: boatbums

I’ve sometimes wondered if the 200 million

was a statement about POWER

as in horsepower only human power equivalent . . .

perhaps . . . nukes?


107 posted on 09/14/2009 12:16:32 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: topcat54

Obviously . . .

in an

UNRubberized authentic Bible.


108 posted on 09/14/2009 12:17:45 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: topcat54

Though there MIGHT

be a SLIGHT amount of inference involved. I don’t recall precisely.


109 posted on 09/14/2009 12:18:30 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

The Roots of War, Part 2:

The Magog Identity

by Chuck Missler

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And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him. . .And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horse-men, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords: - Ezekiel 38:1-4

So begins this classic passage in which Gog and Magog, with their allies, are drawn into an invasion of Israel only to have the God of Israel use the occasion to show Himself strong by intervening on behalf of His people and destroying the invading forces. The apparent use of nuclear weapons1 has made this passage appear timely and perhaps on our near horizon.

To understand this passage, it is essential to first determine who the players are. Despite the many controversies, these participants are surprisingly well identified. Just who are the people represented here by these ancient tribal names?

Why Such Weird Names?

Have you ever wondered why the Biblical prophets always seem to refer to various peoples by such strange names?  It's actually our fault!  We keep changing the names of things. There once was a city known as Petrograd. For many years it was known as St. Petersburg. Then it was changed to Leningrad. Now it's St. Petersburg again. What will it be named a few years from now? (My friends in Russia say that in Russia, even the past is uncertain!) The capital of the old world, Byzantium, was renamed Constantinople. Now that city is known as Istanbul. This occurs even in our own country.  How many of you remember when "Cape Canaveral" was renamed "Cape Kennedy"? Ten years later it became "Cape Canaveral" again.

But we do not change the names of our ancestors! So, if you were the prophet Isaiah and were called upon to speak of the Persians over a century before they emerged as an empire, how could you refer to them?  You would speak of them as the descendants of Elam, the forebears of the Persians.2

The Table of Nations

Did you realize that you and I are related?  All of us are descendants, not only from Adam, but from Noah. Noah and his three sons repopulated the entire Earth after the flood. Thus, we are all descendants of Noah's three sons: Ham, Shem, and Japheth. We are all relatives.  (Perhaps that's why we don't get along any better!) The genealogical records of Noah and his three sons are listed in Genesis 10, and the 70 original tribal groups described there are often called by Biblical scholars, The Table of Nations. Specifically, to understand the prophecies of Ezekiel 38 - 39, we need some background on Magog and his allies.

Magog was one of the sons of Japheth3  and his descendants are often referred to by their Greek name, the Scythians. 4  One of the earliest references to Magog was by Hesiod, "the father of Greek didactic poetry," who identified Magog with the Scythians and southern Russia in the 7th century B.C.5  Hesiod was, in effect, almost a contemporary of Ezekiel. Another of the major sources on the ancient history of the Middle East is, of course, Josephus Flavius, who clearly identified Magog:

Magog founded the Magogians, thus named after him, but who were by the Greeks called Scythians .6  

Another first century writer was Philo,7  who also identified Magog with southern Russia. But most of our information comes to us from Herodotus, who wrote extensively in the 5th century B.C.

The "Father of History"

Herodotus of Halicarnassus is known as the "Father of History."  He wrote the earliest important historical narrative, in which he described the background and the course of the great war between the Greeks and the Persians in the 5th century B.C. Numerous archeological discoveries have clearly confirmed Herodotus' reports in general, and his Scythian accounts in particular.8 

The tortuous path from the horseback archery of the early Scyths to the nuclear missiles of the Russian Federation includes many centuries of turbulent history. The various descendants of Magog terrorized the southern steppes of Russia from the Ukraine to the Great Wall of China. 

The "Steppes of History"

The earliest origins of the area settled by the descendants of Magog, the extreme north and east, are clouded by the passage of time and war. Only faint traces remain, but enough to establish the critical identities. Our indebtedness extends from writers predating Ezekiel to the energies of the Russian archaeologists in more recent years. In the 9th century B.C. a number of nomadic tribes created a new state in the region of Lake Van in present-day Turkey, which immediately became a competitor of Assyria. The Assyrians called this state Urartu. The Urartean state quickly became powerful, and in the first half of the 8th century B.C. extended its rule over a wide area.

Assyria could not stand by indifferently as Urartu expanded and grew more powerful. During the reign of Argishti's son, Sarduri II (764-735 B.C.), the Assyrians undertook two campaigns against Urartu, in 743 and 735 B.C. In the second, they reached and besieged the Urartean capital of Tushpa. Two groups are frequently referred to in Urartean and Assyrian texts: the Cimmerians and the Scythians. Both will figure prominently in subsequent identifications.

The Cimmerians

The Cimmerians are the oldest of the European tribes living north of the Black Sea and Danube, and whom we know by the name they used for themselves. The Cimmerian period in the history of southern Ukraine began in the late 11th century B.C. The Cimmerians were the first specialized horse-nomads to make their name in history.9  The earliest osteological evidence of the domestication of the horse occurs south of Kiev about 2500 B.C.10  Their nomadic lifestyle, including mounted warriors, fully developed between the 10th and 8th centuries. 11

They are first mentioned in secular literature in The Odyssey and The Iliad of Homer (8th century B.C.), and in Assyrian cuneiform texts from the 8th century B.C. (before Ezekiel), and of course, in Herodotus (5th century B.C.). Herodotus indicates that the whole North Pontic steppe region, occupied in his time by the Scythians, belonged earlier to the Cimmerians. 12  Homer13  associated the Cimmerians with a fog-bound land, perhaps the Crimean peninsula on the north shore of the Black Sea. Some scholars derive the name of "Crimea" from the Cimmerians.14  The Cimmerians surged into Asia Minor in the late 7th century B.C. They annihilated the Phrygian kingdom after destroying and looting its capital, Gordium. In 652 B.C. they captured Sardis and plundered the Greek cities of the Aegean coast and Asia Minor.  In the early 7th century, Cimmerian forces were checked and routed by the Assyrians who came to the aid of the Scythians. By the 6th century B.C. the name of the Cimmerians disappeared from the historical scene.

In the 5th century B.C., Herodotus15 related that the Cimmerians were driven south over the Caucasus, probably through the central Dariel Pass, by the Scythians in a domino-like effect as the Scythians themselves were pushed westward by other tribes. This can be correlated with Chinese records.16  The numerous references in the Talmud has left little doubt that these descendants of Gomer then moved northward and established themselves in the Rhine and Danube valleys 17

The Scythians

We know the descendants of Magog by their Greek designation as the Scythians (depicted in their legends as descending from Scythes , the youngest of the three sons of Heracles, from sleeping with a half viper and half woman). 18  The name Scythian designates a number of nomadic tribes from the Russian steppes, one group of which invaded the Near East in the 8th and 7th centuries B.C. After being repulsed from Media, many of the later Scyths settled in the fertile area of the Ukraine north of the Black Sea. Other related tribes occupied the area to the east of the Caspian Sea. 

Herodotus describes them living in Scythia (i.e., the territory north of the Black Sea). He describes Scythia as a square, 20 days journey (360 miles) on a side. It encompassed the lower reaches of the Dniester, Bug, Dnieper, and Don Rivers where they flow into the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov. 19  

The Scythian language belonged to the Iranian family of the Indo-European languages.20  The Ossetian dialect of central Caucasus appears to be a survivor.21  The original area in which Iranian was spoken extended from the mid-Volga and the Don regions to the northern Urals and beyond. From here, Iranian-speaking tribes colonized Media, Parthia, Persia, Central Asia, and as far as the Chinese border.

In the 7th century B.C. the Scythians swept across the area, displacing the Cimmerians from the steppes of the Ukraine east of Dnieper River, who fled from them across the Caucasus.22  It is provocative that even the name "Caucasus" appears to have been derived from Gog-hasan, or "Gog's Fort."23

The hippomolgoi ("mare-milkers") mentioned in Homer's Iliad 24  were equestrian nomads of the northern steppes and several authorities also identified these with the Scythians. 25   [One of the delicacies I was presented with when I was being hosted by the Deputy Chairman of the Soviet Union was fermented horse milk!  These traditions may have a deep history, indeed.]

Tombs That Tell Tales

The fact that the Scythian culture extended more than 2,000 miles east from the Ukraine was demonstrated by the sensational discovery of tombs in the Chilikta Valley of East Kazakhstan, published in Russian in 1965:

...prove that Scythian material culture had spread to the Mongolian border as early as the 6th century B.C. 26

Countless Scythian burials, ranging from the 6th - 2nd century B.C., have been uncovered in the areas to the north and east of the Black Sea, in many cases beyond the limits of what Herodotus demarcated in his day as "Scythia" proper. Soviet scholars have, of course, worked broadly in this region. 27  More than 1,200 graves were investigated by A. Leskov in the Crimean area between 1961 and 1972.  Aerial surveys also have been employed.28  Hundreds of Scythian graves from the 4th and 3rd centuries have been discovered since the 1930s by B. Grakow, A. Trenoschkin, and E. Tschernenko, in the Ukraine. One of the many implications of the Soviet finds is the authentication of the reliability of Herodotus as a source of knowledge of the Scythians. The leading authorities on the Scythians, T. Rice, T. Sulimirski, and others, all regard Herodotus as thoroughly vindicated.29

Remarkable circumstances led to the preservation of otherwise perishable materials. The frozen conditions marvelously preserved textiles, remains of horses, human skin and hair, entrails, undigested food, etc., for more than 2,300 years! In July 1995, Russian archaeologists found a 2,500 year old Scythian horseman under more than seven feet of ice in Siberia near the Chinese and Mongolian borders.  More than 6,500 feet above sea level, the Ukok Plateau is blanketed by a thick layer of rocks that keeps the ground frozen year round.  The horseman had been given his ceremonial burial in his fur coat and high leather boots, alongside his horse in a log-lined chamber in the Altai Mountains. He also had his ax, quiver, and dagger.30 

According to Herodotus and archaeological evidence, the Scythians occupied territory from the Danube to the Don. The northern boundary extended beyond the latitude of Kiev. Near Olbia lived the Callipidae and Graeco-Scythians, and farther north, the Alazones.

Defense in Depth

One reason Herodotus gave so much detailed information about the Scythians was that he wanted to describe the people who had succeeded in defeating the Persian king, Darius. This was a most important element in the history of Scythians, and the memory of it remained with them for many years. In resisting the Persians, a provocative strategic tradition was born: Defense in Depth.  This unique strategy also would characterize these descendants of Magog in more recent times against both Napoleon and Hitler.

Darius I crossed the Bosphorus and invaded Scythia. The Scythians, however, had devised an unusual tactic for conducting warfare. The Persians expected to crush the Scythians in a decisive engagement, but the Scythians avoided such a battle. They retreated deep into their own territory, laying waste the region and wearing down the enemy by means of small raids.  In pursuing the Scythians, Darius soon came to appreciate the cunning of these "partisan" tactics. Reaching the Volga, Darius, acknowledging defeat, had to retreat from Scythia in shame.

As every student of military history knows, Napoleon and Hitler, each, in more modern times, encountered the same tactics from the Scythian descendants and yielding similar results. When Napoleon entered Russia in 1812, Field Marshall Kutuzov's similar strategy, including the sacrifice of Moscow itself, resulted in reducing Napoleon's Grande Armée from 453,000 to less than 10,000, and yielding the ignomious defeat now commemorated in Tchaikovsky's Overture of 1812. In 1941, Hitler suffered a similar defeat from the same Scythian strategy: allowing a quick advance deep into the Russian interior only to have his Wehrmacht swallowed up in the harsh winter.

Decline

Greater Scythia disintegrated in the late 3rd century B.C., and the territory extended only from the Lower Dnieper to the Crimea.  There were several causes; the main one was apparently ecological.  Evidently the natural and climatic conditions of life on the steppe were changing. According to some experts there was a "desertification" of the steppe. 31  The population moved to more favorable areas, in particular southwards to the southern Dnieper. The Scythians finally succumbed to attacks from the Goths.

Scythians in the New Testament

The word Scythian occurs once in the New Testament. Paul stresses the fact that people from the most diverse backgrounds can be one in Christ:

Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. 
- Colossians 3:11

These unsavory associations mean nothing to readers today but would have aroused a strong emotional response from Paul's audience.  According to this passage, not only were all classes of society, civilized and uncivilized, one in Christ, but even those cruel, barbaric Scythians - the epitome of savagery in the ancient world 32 - were eligible for redemption through the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. [Even as you and I are. No matter how barbaric or cruel our own history is, His redemption is available for the asking.]

More to Come

The background that has endowed these vibrant people with the beauty of Pushkin, Dostoyevsky, and Tchaikovsky has also given them the cruelty of Ivan IV,33  the intensity of Lenin, and the brutality of Stalin. In our next installment, we will review more of the stormy events from their colorful but violent past, from the invasion by the Huns into the European steppes, the fall of the Western Roman Empire, the appearance in Asia and Europe of the Turks, Avar and Khazar Khanates, and the invasion by the armies of Genghis Khan and the Golden Horde. See Roots of War: Profiling the Middle East.

*  *  *


**FOR A MORE IN-DEPTH STUDY**

Roots of War - Chuck Missler

On September 11, 2001, Islamic extremists shook the world. This briefing will update you on the history of the Middle East since the fall of the Roman Empire

Click for more information - Audio Cassette


**NOTES**

  1. Ezekiel 39:9-15.
  2. Isaiah 11:11; 21:2; 22:6.
  3. Genesis 10:2; I Chronicles 1:5.
  4. Keil, C.F., & Delitzsch, F., Biblical Commentary on the Prophecies of Ezekiel, T. & T. Clark, Edinburgh, 1891, vol 2, p.157; Gesenius, Wilhelm, A Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament, Crocker & Brewster, Boston, 1872, pp.534, 626, 955, 1121; Scofield, C.I., ed., The Scofield Reference Bible, Oxford University, 1917, p.883; The New Scofield Reference Bible, English, E.S., 1967, p.881.
  5. F. W. Gingrich & Frederich Danker, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other Early Christian Literature,  Univ. of Chicago Press, Chicago & London, 1957.
  6. Josephus, Antiquities, 1.123; Jerome, Commentary on Ezekiel 38:2.
  7. F. H. Colson, G.H. Whitaker, & Ralph Marcus, Philo, Loeb Classical Library, London, 1929-1953.
  8. W. Spiegelberg, The Credibility of Herodotus' Account of Egypt in the Light of the Egyptian Monuments, Blackwell, Oxford, 1927; O. E. Ravn, Herodotus' Description of Babylon, A. Busck, Copenhagen, 1942.
  9. E. D. Phillips, "New Light on the Ancient History of the Eurasian Steppe," American Journal of Archaeology 61, 1957, p. 274.
  10. J. F. Downs, "The Origin and Spread of Riding in the Near East and Central Asia," American Anthropologist 63, 1961, p. 1196.
  11. K. Jettmar, "Die Entstehung der Reiternomaden," Saeculum 17, 1966, p. 1-11.; E.D. Phillips, "New Light on the Ancient History of the Eurasian Steppe," American Journal of Archaelogy, 61, 1957.
  12. Herodotus 4.11.
  13. Odyssey, 11.13-19.
  14. Strabo 7.4.3.
  15. Herodotus  4.11-13.
  16. T. Rice, The Scythians , 3rd ed., Praeger, NY, 1961, p. 43.
  17. Targum Yonasan and the Midrash: identification with Germania.
  18. It is interesting to notice how frequently a woman is linked with a serpent: Genesis 3; the legends surrounding the birth of Alexander the Great, etc.
  19. B.A. Rybakov (Rus: Herodotus's Scythia ), Nauka, Moscow, 1979, p. 19.
  20. See R. G. Kent, Old Persian, 2nd ed., American Oriental Society, New Haven CT, 1953, p. 6; J. Potratz, Die Skythen in Sudrussland , Raggi, Basel, 1963, p.17.
  21. See "Scythian"(Rus: Great Soviet Encylopedia ), 3rd ed., 1979, vol 23, pp.259-260. Also, Herodotus 4.117, 4.108, 4.106.
  22. Herodotus  4.12.
  23. Dr. John Gill, A Commentary on the Old Testament, 1748.
  24. Iliad, 13.5.
  25. B.N. Grakov, Die Skythen , Deutscher Verlag der Wissenschaften, Berlin, 1980, p.4.
  26. M. Van Loon, review of J. Potratz, Die Skythen in Sudrussland, in Journal of Near Eastern Studies , 29, 1970, p.71.
  27. Rybakov, pp.104-168; T. Sulimirski, "The Scythian Age in the U.S.S.R.," Bulletin of the Institute of Archaeology, London, 10, 1971, pp.114-131; V. S. Olkhovski, "The Scythian Catacombs in the Steppes of the Black Sea" Sovetskaia Arkheologiia, no. 4, 1977, pp. 108-128; "The Ancient Tombs of the Scyths According to Herodotus and the Archaeological Data," Sovietskaia Arkheologiia, No. 4, 1978, pp. 83-97. A. M. Leskov, "Die skythischen Kurgane," Antike Welt 5, Sondernummer; 1974.
  28. A. M. Leskov, "Die skythischen Kurgane," Antike Welt, 5, Sondernummer; 1974.
  29. T. Rice, Scythians, p. 42; Rybakov, Gerodotova Skifiia, pp. 239-240; M. I. Artamonov, Treasures from Scythian Tombs in the Hermitage Museum, Thames and Hudson, London, 1969, p. 16; K. S. Rubinson, "Herodotus and the Scythians," Expedition,  17, Summer, 1975, p. 20; T. Sulimirski, "Scythian Antiquities," p. 294, citing works of C. F. Lehmann-Haupt, V. Struve, G. C. Cameron, and A. Baschmakoff in support of Herodotus. Also, J. Przyluski, "Noveaux aspects de l'histoire des Scythes," Revue de l'Universite de Bruxelles, 42, 1936-1937, pp. 210ff.
  30. "Experts struggle to preserve 2,500-year-old Horseman," Orange County Register, Sept 1, 1995.
  31. Some believe that orbital perturbations may have altered the Earth's ecological balance in ages past. See Signs in the Heavens, Koinonia House.
  32. i.e., II Maccabees 4:47; III Maccabees 7:5; Josephus, Contra Apionem 2.269.
  33. The notorious exploits of Ivan The Terrible are hardly more shocking than the Massacre of St. Bartholemew's Day or the methods of the Roman Catholic Inquisition. See Dave Hunt's A Woman Rides the Beast, Harvest House, 1994.

110 posted on 09/14/2009 12:25:27 PM PDT by Scythian
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To: Scythian

Thanks.

Good job.

Gotta give the gnashing teeth exercise! LOL.


111 posted on 09/14/2009 12:28:52 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Quix

Read the part about the Scythians ... Chucks tapes on this are incredible, the history of that area is amazing, salvation is offered “even unto the Scythian” the utter heathen, babarian, yes, even to these Salvation is offered ...


112 posted on 09/14/2009 12:30:36 PM PDT by Scythian
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To: Quix

From the article I posted ...

Magog was one of the sons of Japheth3 and his descendants are often referred to by their Greek name, the Scythians. 4 One of the earliest references to Magog was by Hesiod, “the father of Greek didactic poetry,” who identified Magog with the Scythians and southern Russia in the 7th century B.C.5 Hesiod was, in effect, almost a contemporary of Ezekiel. Another of the major sources on the ancient history of the Middle East is, of course, Josephus Flavius, who clearly identified Magog:


113 posted on 09/14/2009 12:31:47 PM PDT by Scythian
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To: topcat54
Ask him about Nicea. That's usually telling.

Ooh. That doesn't sound good.

It's been my observation that if you bring up Nicea, and get in response a ranting screed about Constantine and the Council, you're probably not dealing with anybody remotely orthodox.

114 posted on 09/14/2009 12:42:41 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("They wouldn't know a Christological heresey if it beat them up and stole their wallet.")
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To: Lee N. Field

Some nonsequiturs are merely uninteresting.


115 posted on 09/14/2009 12:47:16 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: topcat54; Quix
Oh, man!
I’ve sometimes wondered if the 200 million
was a statement about POWER
as in horsepower only human power equivalent . . .
perhaps . . . nukes?

And

Obviously . . .
in an
UNRubberized authentic Bible.

Delicious irony, having these posts adjacent.

116 posted on 09/14/2009 12:47:33 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("They wouldn't know a Christological heresy if it beat them up and stole their wallet.")
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To: Scythian

I think that research is quite good and quite accurate.

Thanks.


117 posted on 09/14/2009 12:48:02 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Lee N. Field; topcat54
It's been my observation that if you bring up Nicea, and get in response a ranting screed about Constantine and the Council, you're probably not dealing with anybody remotely orthodox.

Is it your position that to be "right thinking" you must agree with all the councils that were called to resolve Christian beliefs? What if those councils came up with things that are not supported in Scripture?

118 posted on 09/14/2009 12:49:48 PM PDT by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: Quix
Some nonsequiturs are merely uninteresting.

There's some interesting recursion going on in that statement.

119 posted on 09/14/2009 12:50:58 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("They wouldn't know a Christological heresy if it beat them up and stole their wallet.")
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To: Lee N. Field

Folks addicted to chewing on rubber constantly are likely to find irony in many surprising places.


120 posted on 09/14/2009 12:51:01 PM PDT by Quix (POL Ldrs quotes fm1900 2 presnt: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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