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To: Mr Rogers
Of course He could.

But if His intent was that Mary would have a role in salvation history beyond her natural role as a human being then His plan would likely provide a special consideration for her that would be far beyond even what He would bestow upon the greatest of His saints.

Something else that's worth noting is that Mary occupies a very special place even from a purely natural/scientific perspective.

If Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit and had no "natural" human father, then His human form would contain a genetic code (DNA) that was identical to Mary's. I would ponder on that for a moment and think about the possible ramifications of that salient fact.

45 posted on 08/17/2009 10:01:22 AM PDT by Alberta's Child (God is great, beer is good . . . and people are crazy.)
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To: Alberta's Child
The blood of Christ flowed thru the blood of Mary. Christ was born of a an Immaculate Father, God - Divne Creator and and Immaculate Mother, Mary - Human Creation.
53 posted on 08/17/2009 10:08:42 AM PDT by frogjerk (tagline pulled for verification)
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To: Alberta's Child
special consideration

If she gets an exemption, then why not the rest of us? "special consideration" = sinless = no need of a savior. What, there isn't enough of that "special consideration" to go around? Undermines the whole salvation process at the nexus of it happening.

55 posted on 08/17/2009 10:09:36 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (Your opinion is doubleplusungoodthinkful. You have been reported to flag@whitehouse.gov.)
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To: Alberta's Child
If Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit and had no "natural" human father, then His human form would contain a genetic code (DNA) that was identical to Mary's. I would ponder on that for a moment and think about the possible ramifications of that salient fact.

You are speaking of parthenogenesis, which occurs naturally, though very rarely. In such cases, only a daughter can be born.

If you accept that Almighty God can conceive by a virgin, then you must accept that He can give her the DNA necessary to have a Son. That DNA is not available to us to study, nor should it be, in my opinion.

60 posted on 08/17/2009 10:11:37 AM PDT by Judith Anne (Drill here! Drill NOW! Defund the EPA!)
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To: Alberta's Child
If Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit and had no "natural" human father, then His human form would contain a genetic code (DNA) that was identical to Mary's. I would ponder on that for a moment and think about the possible ramifications of that salient fact.

The first "ramification" that comes to mind is that Christ would be a woman if His DNA was identical to Mary's.
105 posted on 08/17/2009 10:38:30 AM PDT by armydoc
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To: Alberta's Child

“If Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit and had no “natural” human father, then His human form would contain a genetic code (DNA) that was identical to Mary’s. I would ponder on that for a moment and think about the possible ramifications of that salient fact.”

If so, Jesus would have looked just like Mary...you might ponder on that. All X, no Y = female.

“But if His intent was that Mary would have a role in salvation history beyond her natural role as a human being...”

Big if. After the first chapter of Acts, there is no mention of Mary. No attention is paid to her whatever after Acts 1.


Here are the verses I could find on Jesus, as an adult, speaking to or referencing Mary...

The first 3 are different accounts of the same event.

“46 While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him. 47 Then one said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.” 48 But He answered and said to the one who told Him, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.” - Matt 12

31 Then His brothers and His mother came, and standing outside they sent to Him, calling Him. 32 And a multitude was sitting around Him; and they said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are outside seeking You.” 33 But He answered them, saying, “Who is My mother, or My brothers?” 34 And He looked around in a circle at those who sat about Him, and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! 35 For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother.” - Mark 3

19 Then His mother and brothers came to Him, and could not approach Him because of the crowd. 20 And it was told Him by some, who said, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You.” 21 But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” - Luke 8

While I assume Jesus did eventually speak to his mother and brothers, he certainly didn’t jump up and say, “The Theotokos, she who is higher than the Cherubim, is here? Show her in, with reverence!”

One woman sought to give honor to Mary:

“While he was speaking, a woman from the crowd called out and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that carried you and the breasts at which you nursed.” He replied, “Rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.” — Luke 11

Rather than saying, “Indeed, Blessed is She, the Theotokos, the unshakable hope, ever vigilant in intercession and protection, Mother of life!”, Jesus replies, “Rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.” The NAB footnotes say, “Rather, it emphasizes (like Luke 2:35) that attentiveness to God’s word is more important than biological relationship to Jesus.”

There is the Wedding at Cana:

1 On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Now both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding.

3 And when they ran out of wine, the mother of Jesus said to Him, “They have no wine.” 4 Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it.”

6 Now there were set there six waterpots of stone, according to the manner of purification of the Jews, containing twenty or thirty gallons apiece. 7 Jesus said to them, “Fill the waterpots with water.”...You have kept the good wine until now!”...12 After this He went down to Capernaum, He, His mother, His brothers, and His disciples; and they did not stay there many days. — John 2

The Catholic footnote in the NAB: “4 [4] This verse may seek to show that Jesus did not work miracles to help his family and friends, as in the apocryphal gospels. Woman: a normal, polite form of address, but unattested in reference to one’s mother. Cf also John 19:26. How does your concern affect me?: literally, “What is this to me and to you?”—a Hebrew expression of either hostility (Judges 11:12; 2 Chron 35:21; 1 Kings 17:18) or denial of common interest (Hosea 14:9; 2 Kings 3:13). Cf Mark 1:24; 5:7 used by demons to Jesus. My hour has not yet come: the translation as a question (”Has not my hour now come?”), while preferable grammatically and supported by Greek Fathers, seems unlikely from a comparison with John 7:6, 30. The “hour” is that of Jesus’ passion, death, resurrection, and ascension (John 13:1).”

And finally, we have the scene at the cross:

25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” 27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home. — John 19

He cares for her, even in his agony - but he doesn’t exactly exalt her, does he?


150 posted on 08/17/2009 11:14:07 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Alberta's Child; Mr Rogers
But if His intent was that Mary would have a role in salvation history beyond her natural role as a human being

One must point out that your statement contains a mighty big "IF," and assumes a conclusion that is not in evidence... anywhere.

Something else that's worth noting is that Mary occupies a very special place even from a purely natural/scientific perspective.

If Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit and had no "natural" human father, then His human form would contain a genetic code (DNA) that was identical to Mary's. I would ponder on that for a moment and think about the possible ramifications of that salient fact.

LOL! REALLY??? according to whom? YHWH is the father, and the Father. The very moment one admits that YHWH took a very personal hand in the formation and construction of Jesus in the womb (far beyond the specifics generally employed), one loses the ability to predict or declare anything.

381 posted on 04/28/2011 10:46:37 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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