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To: xone; lightman

Thanks for this.

Would I be correct then in saying that while traditional Lutherans may or may not share basic Marian beliefs with Catholics, they generally have no major issues with Catholics on the subject?


299 posted on 08/17/2009 1:46:10 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
Would I be correct then in saying that while traditional Lutherans may or may not share basic Marian beliefs with Catholics, they generally have no major issues with Catholics on the subject?

Based upon how FR Catholics have reacted regarding what the Catholic Church teaches as defined by a Protestant, I am not sure I would hazard defining your church's doctrine. The perpetual virginity of Mary isn't supported by Scripture, but rather Scripture is silent. If Catholics are not bound to it as a salvation issue than I wouldn't see it as an issue. As my earlier post indicated, invocation to Mary is something that would probably be considered a 'major issue' my church would contend. I would.

To be more clear and not run the risk of defining what Catholics believe, if you would post a similar list to what I have done in #256 I would be happy to reply.

305 posted on 08/17/2009 2:08:59 PM PDT by xone
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To: wagglebee; xone

One of the best ways to begin with understanding Luther’s view of Mary is Luther’s Marian hymn, completed A.D. 1545, one year before his death.

Luther scholars frequently—generally correctly—differentiate between “young, Catholic Luther” and “old, Protestant Luther”. Indeed, the LCMS article points cited by Xone makes that very point.

Well, here is “old Protestant Luther, some 28 years after posting the 95 Theses sounding very Catholic indeed:

To me she’s dear, the worthy maid,
And I cannot forget her;
Praise, honor, virtue her are said,
Then all will love her better.
I seek her good,
And if I should
Right evil fare,
I do not care,
She’ll make up for it to me
With love and truth that will not tire,
Which she will ever show me,
And do all my desire.

She wears of purest gold a crown
Twelve stars their rays are twining,
Her rainment, glorious as the sun,
And bright from far is shining.
Her feet the moon
Are set upon
She is the bride
With the Lord to hide.
Sore travail is upon her;
She bringest forth a noble Son
Whom all the world must honor,
Their king, the only one.

That makes the dragon rage and roar,
He will the child upswallow;
His raging comes to nothing more;
No jot of gain will follow.
The infant high
Up to the sky
Away is heft
And he is left
On earth,all mad with murder.
The mother now alone is she,
But God will watchful guard her.
And the right Father he.


364 posted on 08/17/2009 8:13:37 PM PDT by lightman (Adjutorium nostrum (+) in nomine Domini.)
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