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To: Talisker
What you describe is a worship-centric, accretionary historical process which is actually peripheral to the Sanatan Dharma philosophy that makes up the core of what is called "Hinduism" today.

perhaps -- however, like all religions, Hinduism has absorbed from others and influenced others.

I would disagree with you and say that Sanatan Dharma philosophy is not self-evident in Vedic Hinduism -- "The Sanatan Dharma is the philosophy not only that everything is God, but also that God has become everything and everyone, and so the process of "salvation" consists in "realizing" that one's own, personal, essential Self is none other than God." --> I don't see that reflected in the Vedas, but perhaps i haven't read it well enough. Also, Hinduism is so old, and also, the early Hebrew religion does not resemble modern day Rabbinical Judaism.

That's why Hinduism could accept Jesus Christ so completely - He was seen as another world-manifestation Divine expression of the Lord, within a framework where such world-manifestations of the Lord are necessary to change world history. In Hinduism, examples of such other manifestations are Krishna and Rama, and there are many others as well.

True -- hindus can accept Christ but they aren't able to absorb Mohammed -- I wonder why?

In addition, something so fundamental as the Trinity is hardly new to Hinduism. Even before Brahma, Vishnu & Shiva, the concepts of God's powers of creation, protection and destruction/rebirth were fundamental, because of their requirement for rational thought about the universe across time.

The concept of a Trinity of Gods representing different aspects of the Godhead is plainly part of post-Christian influence hindu thought. Of course the christian idea of the trinity differs from the Hindu concept, but the idea of 3 is plainly an outside influence (like I said that the idea of angels is an influence of Zoroastrianism on Judaism)
106 posted on 07/31/2009 3:22:59 AM PDT by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
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To: Cronos; Steelfish
 

 

 

   The Bhagavad-Gita.
 
Chapter XII
 
 
ARJUNA:


LORD! of the men who serve Thee—true in heart—

 
As God revealed; and of the men who serve,  
Worshipping Thee Unrevealed, Unbodied, far,  
Which take the better way of faith and life?  
 
KRISHNA:


Whoever serve Me—as I show Myself—

        5
Constantly true, in full devotion fixed,  
These hold I very holy. But who serve—  
Worshiping Me The One, The Invisible,  
The Unrevealed, Unnamed, Unthinkable,  
Uttermost, All-pervading, Highest, Sure—         10
Who thus adore Me, mastering their sense,  
Of one set mind to all, glad in all good,  
These blessed souls come unto Me.  
        Yet, hard  
The travail is for whoso bend their minds         15
To reach th’ Unmanifest. That viewless path  
Shall scarce be trod by man bearing his flesh!  
But whereso any doeth all his deeds,  
Renouncing self in Me, full of Me, fixed  
To serve only the Highest, night and day         20
Musing on Me—him will I swiftly lift  
Forth from life’s ocean of distress and death  
Whose soul clings fast to Me. Cling thou to Me!  
Clasp Me with heart and mind! so shalt thou dwell  
Surely with Me on high. But if thy thought         25
Droops from such height; if thou be’st weak to set  
Body and soul upon Me constantly,  
Despair not! give Me lower service! seek  
To read Me, worshipping with steadfast will;  
And, if thou canst not worship steadfastly,         30
Work for Me, toil in works pleasing to Me!  
For he that laboreth right for love of Me  
Shall finally attain! But, if in this  
Thy faint heart fails, bring Me thy failure! find  
Refuge in Me! let fruits of labor go,         35
Renouncing all for Me, with lowliest heart,  
So shalt thou come; for, though to know is more  
Than diligence, yet worship better is  
Than knowing, and renouncing better still  
Near to renunciation—very near—         40
Dwelleth Eternal Peace!  
        Who hateth nought  
Of all which lives, living himself benign,  
Compassionate, from arrogance exempt,  
Exempt from love of self, unchangeable         45
By good or ill; patient, contented, firm  
In faith, mastering himself, true to his word,  
Seeking Me, heart and soul; vowed unto Me,—  
That man I love! Who troubleth not his kind,  
And is not troubled by them; clear of wrath,         50
Living too high for gladness, grief, or fear,  
That man I love! Who, dwelling quiet-eyed,  
Stainless, serene, well-balanced, unperplexed,  
Working with Me, yet from all works detached,  
That man I love! Who, fixed in faith on Me,         55
Dotes upon none, scorns none; rejoices not,  
And grieves not, letting good and evil hap  
Light when it will, and when it will depart,  
That man I love! Who, unto friend and foe  
Keeping an equal heart, with equal mind         60
Bears shame and glory, with an equal peace  
Takes heat and cold, pleasure and pain; abides  
Quit of desires, hears praise or calumny  
In passionless restraint, unmoved by each,  
Linked by no ties to earth, steadfast in Me,         65
That man I love! But most of all I love  
Those happy ones to whom ’tis life to live  
In single fervid faith and love unseeing,  
Eating the blessèd Amrit of my Being!  
 
Here endeth Chapter XII. of the Bhagavad-Gîtâ,
        70
entitled “Bhakityôgô,” or “The Book of
 
the Religion of Faith”
 
 
 
 

 The Bhagavad-Gita

 


 

 

KRISHNA:
 

 
Yet not by Vedas, nor from sacrifice,         335
Nor penance, nor gift-giving, nor with prayer  
Shall any so behold, as thou hast seen!  
Only by fullest service, perfect faith,  
And uttermost surrender am I known  
And seen, and entered into, Indian Prince!

 
        340
Who doeth all for Me; who findeth Me  
In all; adoreth always; loveth all  
Which I have made, and Me, for Love’s sole end,  
That man, Arjuna! unto Me doth wend.  
 
Here endeth Chapter XI. of the Bhagavad-Gîtâ,
        345
entitled “Viswarupdarsanam,” or “The Book
 
of the Manifesting of the One
 
and Manifold”
 

108 posted on 07/31/2009 3:30:08 AM PDT by MyTwoCopperCoins (I don't have a license to kill; I have a learner's permit.)
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To: Cronos
I would disagree with you and say that Sanatan Dharma philosophy is not self-evident in Vedic Hinduism -- "The Sanatan Dharma is the philosophy not only that everything is God, but also that God has become everything and everyone, and so the process of "salvation" consists in "realizing" that one's own, personal, essential Self is none other than God." --> I don't see that reflected in the Vedas, but perhaps i haven't read it well enough.

As for "self-evident," that introduces the question of "self-evident for whom?" Traditionally, Vedic learning is taught within the context of being an external behavioral model that supports and enhances the experience of the root concept of God-as-all-and-everyone. For example, a modern Hindu teacher, Gnani Purush 'Dada Bhagwan' (with whom I am not affiliated in any way whatever) addressed the relationship of the Vedas with the realization of the divine Self (Atma or Atman) as follows:

In the Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krishna has said, “Vedas are not outside the three gunas (attributes of the non-self; the prakruti). Truly, the Vedas illuminate the three gunas.” It was after meeting Lord Neminath that Lord Krishna spoke the Gita. Prior to that He was a Vedanti; one who follows the Vedas.  In the Gita, He said, “Traigunya vishayo vedo nistraiyai gunyo Bhavarjuna.” He made this great statement. He said that in order to know the Self, one will have to go beyond, the Vedanta. He said, “Hey, Arjuna! Go beyond the holder of the three gunas (trigunatmak i.e. the prakruti) to know the Self.”

What are these three gunas? They are sattva (goodness, relative awareness), rajas (passion, desires) and tamas (darkness, relative unawareness, lethargy). The Vedas support the science of the three gunas; therefore your work will be done only if you go beyond them. Besides, each of these three gunas exist as duality and therefore go beyond the three gunas and understand the Self that is beyond all dualities. Lord Krishna has said for one to go beyond the three gunas in order to realize the Atma but people do not understand this. What do all the four Vedas themselves say, in their conclusion?  They say, “Ne iti…Ne iti… This is not that…this is not that…” (the "this" referred to being the Vedas, and the "that" referred to being the ultimate experience of Self realization, or Atman).

125 posted on 07/31/2009 7:49:33 PM PDT by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
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