Posted on 07/14/2009 7:45:58 AM PDT by GonzoII
You realize that the protestants were engaged in precisely the same thing you accuse the Church of ?
Burning Bibles,
Hanging, Beheading, Torturing, Burning of corpses all because of the Christian faith of their victims,
Destroying libraries and books because they were “superstitious”
You realize that even the translators of the KJV ( Authorized Edition ) in 1611 declared that Wycliffe was not the first to translate into English. That they also used the large number of vernacular translations the Church produced as the basis of their justification of their own translation and that this was published in the KJV ?
You are no doubt aware that many of the folks in Foxes portrayed as “a humble preacher” killed for his faith was in leauge with folks who had sworn, and were led by preachers and self proclaimed prophets to destroy all castles, monestaries, all Lords and were taxing and raising their own armies right before they “humble preachers” were attacked by the existing rulers.
I know you do not realize it and you will not believe me. But someday look up a non protestant source of history.
They remained in printings of the KJV until the 1820s when the Bible societies removed them. Though they may have had prefaces objecting to them.
There was one or two single runs of the KJV about 8 years after 1611 without but then they were right back in there.
Yes it is sad they lost authority for protestants since Christ and the Apostles all used them as scripture in the scripture of the New Testament.
Protestants ironically accept post Christian Jewish Tradition over Church Tradition even though the same Jewish tradition denied the Saviour himself.
Look, I know some Protestants did some pretty awful things to Catholics, anyone who resembled a Catholic (like Archbishop Laud), and even each other. There’s no excuse for it.
***“You won’t find the english versions predating the reformation because when Henry VIII ordered the looting and burning of the churches and monasteries they were destroyed.”
You won’t find them because the people who produced them were killed by the Roman Church for it.***
Name just one person killed by any Catholic Church for producing an English language bible. One will do.
The first English language Scripture that we know of was done by a great Doctor of the Church - the Venerable Bede whose translations are now lost. His Gospel of John was translated into Old English just before 735.
***Yes it is sad they lost authority for protestants since Christ and the Apostles all used them as scripture in the scripture of the New Testament.***
I had a conservative (and Irish) Church of Christ preacher bark in my face that if the KJV was good enough for Jesus, it was good enough for me.
I agreed with him on the spot.
“Name just one person killed by any Catholic Church for producing an English language bible. One will do.”
William Tyndale. He was the first person to produce an English langauge Bible translated directly from Hebrew and Greek texts. He did this work in Worms and brought the Bibles to England. For this Cardinal Wolsey condemned him as a heretic and demanded his arrest. He was betrayed in Germnay, tried and suffered martyrdom at the stake.
***“Name just one person killed by any Catholic Church for producing an English language bible. One will do.”
William Tyndale. He was the first person to produce an English langauge Bible translated directly from Hebrew and Greek texts. He did this work in Worms and brought the Bibles to England. For this Cardinal Wolsey condemned him as a heretic and demanded his arrest. He was betrayed in Germnay, tried and suffered martyrdom at the stake.***
Applause. Let us now examine the good burgher Tyndale’s fate. He wrote a bad translation even though a Catholic priest, and against Church orders. He published it. And ran. Now, who had him arrested and executed? King Henry VIII. After he overthrew the Church in England. No Catholic apologist, he.
For extra bonus points, why don’t you tell us why the anti Catholic Henry had Tyndale executed in Belgium?
Actually, Henry VIII was very devoted to Catholic doctrines. Check out the Six Articles.
A couple of more: John Hus. John Rogers.
The first English language Bible allowed by the Catholic Church was the Rheims Bible (1582), which was translated directly from the Vulgate. The work of Tyndale, Rogers, Erasmus, etc had been translated directly from Greek and Hebrew manuscripts (the original languages of the Bible).
AMEN.
Amen again.
Thank you!
***I had a conservative (and Irish) Church of Christ preacher bark in my face that if the KJV was good enough for Jesus, it was good enough for me.****
That’s because the Church of Christ believes all the early church fathers were “campbellites”. ;-D
And the Cooneyites say they were theirs.
And the baptists claim they were origionally Baptists.And so on and so on.
***Actually, Henry VIII was very devoted to Catholic doctrines. Check out the Six Articles.***
Some of the doctrines. The point is that the Tyndale incident was three years after Henry took over the English Church. He had no love for the Pope and did not follow his orders. Tyndale was not executed by the Pope or on his orders; he was not even executed regarding the bible that he published.
Jan Hus was not executed for publishing an English language Bible. He was executed for publishing the inflammatory and heretical “De sex erroribus” (which he posted on the wall of the Bethlehem Chapel in Prague), and “De ecclesiâ”. He went before the Council of Constance and was convicted of spreading heretical doctrine.
John Rogers was not executed for publishing an English language Bible. He was executed for treason against the Crown and for heresy against the Church (the nature of the Church and the Sacraments).
***The first English language Bible allowed by the Catholic Church was the Rheims Bible (1582), which was translated directly from the Vulgate.***
Mostly, that is correct.
***The work of Tyndale, Rogers, Erasmus, etc had been translated directly from Greek and Hebrew manuscripts (the original languages of the Bible).***
There is a whole lot of information as to where these guys got their information. I’ll try to address it when I have more time.
The first English language Bible allowed
******I had a conservative (and Irish) Church of Christ preacher bark in my face that if the KJV was good enough for Jesus, it was good enough for me.****
That’s because the Church of Christ believes all the early church fathers were “campbellites”. ;-D
And the Cooneyites say they were theirs.
And the baptists claim they were origionally Baptists.And so on and so on.***
Largely correct. I believe it was another CofC preacher in Texas that informed me (while on the subject of Spanish speaking in the US), that if English was good enough for Jesus it was good enough for us.
Two preachers in the CofC, same justification for two different points.
The CofC is an interesting phenomenon. The notable Sidney Rigdon, a chief writer of doctrines along with Campbell fils, went over to the Mormons and became the chief theologian for Joseph Smith.
So it was perfectly acceptable to execute people for disagreeing with Catholic doctrines?
***So it was perfectly acceptable to execute people for disagreeing with Catholic doctrines?***
Realistically speaking, the Church did not put people to death. Upon conviction of heresy against the Christian God, the person was turned over to the civil authorities to handle them as the civil law was written.
I believe that the Second Helvetic Confession in Chapter 30 says: Therefore, let him draw this sword of God against all malefactors, seditious persons, thieves, murderers, oppressors, blasphemers, perjured persons, and all those whom God has commanded him to punish and even to execute. Let him suppress stubborn heretics (who are truly heretics), who do not cease to blaspheme the majesty of God and to trouble, and even to destroy the Church of God.
Here is a difference between the Catholics’ treatment of heretics and certain Protestants’.
“Yes it is sad they lost authority for protestants since Christ and the Apostles all used them as scripture in the scripture of the New Testament.”
No, Jesus and the Apostles did NOT quote from the Apocrypha.
bump
You know I grew up hearing that myself and even telling it to other people believing it to be the truth.
It may surprise you that even the venerable King James Bible itself as originally published included cross references between the apocrypha and the new testament. This was something known to the translators of the King James Version but somewhere along the way that was removed and now we find many sincere people claiming it was never used. There remains in my Cambridge edition of the KJV a single cross reference between Hebrews and 2 Maccabees, though the bound volume I have does not include the apocrypha.
For one example of Paul relating a teaching directly from the apocrypha compare Romans 1:18-24 with Wisdom of Solomon 13:1-10. You can find both texts available online.
In fact Christ teaches directly from Wisdom of Solomon as related in Matthew. You will find references to the apocryphal works, in the same way as they refer to other scripture,
Peace to you.
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