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Well, first of all, that's actually coming a long way for a Mormon just to admit a gun-battle happened at all. To read normal Lds accounts, or to be in Nauvoo where the Mormons give accounts of what happened to tourists, you'd never ever hear the words "gun battle." I mean, how white washed is that of history?

Are you bothered that some tour guide did not use the term "gun battle" when describing that murders of Joseph and Hyrum Smith? If so, I can see your point: battle makes the actions of the mob sound so much grander than lynching.

That is, if several hundred militiamen armed with rifles attack and kill four unarmed men, the militiamen look like cowardly thugs. But if one of the four shoots back with a pistol, you can call it a "battle" and the militiamen suddenly sound heroic.

By the way, your charge that we have whitewashed history is silly. We Mormons have been recounting the events of 27 June 1844 since they happened.

I have here a book published by the LDS Church titled Church History in the Fulness of Times: The History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Salt Lake City: 1989). Not only does the book say that Joseph and Hyrum were armed, one with a pepper-box pistol, the other with a single-shot pistol; it actually shows a photograph of both weapons. (Hyrum's pistol was not fired.)

Secondly, "hundreds of militiamen" were indeed present outside the jail -- but hundreds didn't storm the jail. [That's a bit overkill of a descriptor on your part]

I said nothing about how many stormed the jail. But the militiamen outside the jail—who had been charged with protecting the prisoners—took part in the attack. Even the article you posted clearly indicates that Hyrum and Joseph Smith were struck by rifle balls fired from the hallway of the jail and from outside the jail. My description of the event was accurate.

Logo, you can't even get your own story straight...first you indicate they came in w/blazing rifles, shooting Hyrum & then the others.

Go back and read the article you posted.

Then you say the mob wasn't intent upon shooting anyone (lynching somebody instead). Which is it? (Or were they planning on lynching somebody with a rifle or two?)

I said nothing of the sort. You seemed confused about the meaning of lynch. The dictionary definition of lynch is "to put to death by mob action without legal sanction or due process of law."

Even if they were intent upon lynching them, and saw one of them with his six-shooter in hand, then, of course, they'd open fire.

Of course they would.

Tell me, do you believe the mob acted in self-defense when they killed Joseph Smith?

Tell me, do you believe the mob acted in self-defense when they killed Joseph Smith?

Well, we don't know. In the video clip I posted in the previous post...McKeever actually said every time he's visited the Carthage Jail tour, he's been sure to bring up the smuggled guns:

Another Lds Carthage Jail tour guide (not the Elder Salt he referenced) tried to white wash the smuggled guns by saying, "Oh, they weren't smuggled in. They were brought in." He said one guide tried telling him that Cyrus Wheelock told the jail guard, "I'm here to assassinate the prisoner(s)."

Of course, McKeever didn't believe this report from the Lds Carthage Jail tour guide -- he's never heard that story from anywhere else and couldn't cite any original source this tour guide was possibly relying upon. But what if that tour guide was actually correct in this case? What if Wheelock thought the best way to get guns into the cell was to just bring them in in plain sight -- point it out to the jail guard. What then?

Well, McKeever says the tour guide then told him that the jail guard who let Wheelock in, gun(s) in tow, went off-duty. (Again, McKeever didn't believe this tour guide account). Well, what if as the jail guard was leaving his post, he told the militia men outside that the Smith brothers were now armed? Now that changes the dynamics, doesn't it?

Now any other jail guard hearing of this knows his life is possibly at risk anytime he might pull the prisoners from the room. And now the militiamen actually have a valid reason to storm the jail -- armed prisoners. If that was the case, no wonder the jail guard let armed militiamen in -- and no wonder the armed militiamen didn't hesitate upon firing into the building.

Maybe that Lds tour guide knew something historically correct, after all?