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No Salvation Outside the Church
Catholic Answers ^ | 12/05 | Fr. Ray Ryland

Posted on 06/27/2009 10:33:55 PM PDT by bdeaner



Why does the Catholic Church teach that there is "no salvation outside the Church"? Doesn’t this contradict Scripture? God "desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:4). "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me" (John 14:6). Peter proclaimed to the Sanhedrin, "There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

Since God intends (plans, wills) that every human being should go to heaven, doesn’t the Church’s teaching greatly restrict the scope of God’s redemption? Does the Church mean—as Protestants and (I suspect) many Catholics believe—that only members of the Catholic Church can be saved?

That is what a priest in Boston, Fr. Leonard Feeney, S.J., began teaching in the 1940s. His bishop and the Vatican tried to convince him that his interpretation of the Church’s teaching was wrong. He so persisted in his error that he was finally excommunicated, but by God’s mercy, he was reconciled to the Church before he died in 1978.

In correcting Fr. Feeney in 1949, the Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office (now the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) issued a document entitled Suprema Haec Sacra, which stated that "extra ecclesiam, nulla salus" (outside the Church, no salvation) is "an infallible statement." But, it added, "this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church itself understands it."

Note that word dogma. This teaching has been proclaimed by, among others, Pope Pelagius in 585, the Fourth Lateran Council in 1214, Pope Innocent III in 1214, Pope Boniface VIII in 1302, Pope Pius XII, Pope Paul VI, the Second Vatican Council, Pope John Paul II, and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in Dominus Iesus.

Our point is this: When the Church infallibly teaches extra ecclesiam, nulla salus, it does not say that non-Catholics cannot be saved. In fact, it affirms the contrary. The purpose of the teaching is to tell us how Jesus Christ makes salvation available to all human beings.

Work Out Your Salvation

There are two distinct dimensions of Jesus Christ’s redemption. Objective redemption is what Jesus Christ has accomplished once for all in his life, death, resurrection, and ascension: the redemption of the whole universe. Yet the benefits of that redemption have to be applied unceasingly to Christ’s members throughout their lives. This is subjective redemption. If the benefits of Christ’s redemption are not applied to individuals, they have no share in his objective redemption. Redemption in an individual is an ongoing process. "Work out your own salvation in fear and trembling; for God is at work in you" (Phil. 2:12–13).

How does Jesus Christ work out his redemption in individuals? Through his mystical body. When I was a Protestant, I (like Protestants in general) believed that the phrase "mystical body of Christ" was essentially a metaphor. For Catholics, the phrase is literal truth.

Here’s why: To fulfill his Messianic mission, Jesus Christ took on a human body from his Mother. He lived a natural life in that body. He redeemed the world through that body and no other means. Since his Ascension and until the end of history, Jesus lives on earth in his supernatural body, the body of his members, his mystical body. Having used his physical body to redeem the world, Christ now uses his mystical body to dispense "the divine fruits of the Redemption" (Mystici Corporis 31).

The Church: His Body

What is this mystical body? The true Church of Jesus Christ, not some invisible reality composed of true believers, as the Reformers insisted. In the first public proclamation of the gospel by Peter at Pentecost, he did not invite his listeners to simply align themselves spiritually with other true believers. He summoned them into a society, the Church, which Christ had established. Only by answering that call could they be rescued from the "crooked generation" (Acts 2:40) to which they belonged and be saved.

Paul, at the time of his conversion, had never seen Jesus. Yet recall how Jesus identified himself with his Church when he spoke to Paul on the road to Damascus: "Why do you persecute me?" (Acts 9:4, emphasis added) and "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting" (Acts 9:5). Years later, writing to Timothy, Paul ruefully admitted that he had persecuted Jesus by persecuting his Church. He expressed gratitude for Christ appointing him an apostle, "though I formerly b.asphemed and persecuted and insulted him" (1 Tim. 1:13).

The Second Vatican Council says that the hierarchical structure of the Catholic Church and the mystical body of Christ "form one complex reality that comes together from a human and a divine element" (Lumen Gentium 8). The Church is "the fullness of him [Christ] who fills all in all" (Eph. 1:23). Now that Jesus has accomplished objective redemption, the "plan of mystery hidden for ages in God" is "that through the Church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places" (Eph. 3:9–10).

According to John Paul II, in order to properly understand the Church’s teaching about its role in Christ’s scheme of salvation, two truths must be held together: "the real possibility of salvation in Christ for all humanity" and "the necessity of the Church for salvation" (Redemptoris Missio 18). John Paul taught us that the Church is "the seed, sign, and instrument" of God’s kingdom and referred several times to Vatican II’s designation of the Catholic Church as the "universal sacrament of salvation":

"The Church is the sacrament of salvation for all humankind, and her activity is not limited only to those who accept her message" (RM 20).

"Christ won the Church for himself at the price of his own blood and made the Church his co-worker in the salvation of the world. . . . He carries out his mission through her" (RM 9).

In an address to the plenary assembly of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (January 28, 2000), John Paul stated, "The Lord Jesus . . . established his Church as a saving reality: as his body, through which he himself accomplishes salvation in history." He then quoted Vatican II’s teaching that the Church is necessary for salvation.

In 2000 the CDF issued Dominus Iesus, a response to widespread attempts to dilute the Church’s teaching about our Lord and about itself. The English subtitle is itself significant: "On the Unicity and Salvific Universality of Jesus Christ and the Church." It simply means that Jesus Christ and his Church are indivisible. He is universal Savior who always works through his Church:

The only Savior . . . constituted the Church as a salvific mystery: He himself is in the Church and the Church is in him. . . . Therefore, the fullness of Christ’s salvific mystery belongs also to the Church, inseparably united to her Lord (DI 18).

Indeed, Christ and the Church "constitute a single ‘whole Christ’" (DI 16). In Christ, God has made known his will that "the Church founded by him be the instrument for the salvation of all humanity" (DI 22). The Catholic Church, therefore, "has, in God’s plan, an indispensable relationship with the salvation of every human being" (DI 20).

The key elements of revelation that together undergird extra ecclesiam, nulla salus are these: (1) Jesus Christ is the universal Savior. (2) He has constituted his Church as his mystical body on earth through which he dispenses salvation to the world. (3) He always works through it—though in countless instances outside its visible boundaries. Recall John Paul’s words about the Church quoted above: "Her activity is not limited only to those who accept its message."

Not of this Fold

Extra ecclesiam, nulla salus does not mean that only faithful Roman Catholics can be saved. The Church has never taught that. So where does that leave non-Catholics and non-Christians?

Jesus told his followers, "I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd" (John 10:16). After his Resurrection, Jesus gave the threefold command to Peter: "Feed my lambs. . . . Tend my sheep. . . . Feed my sheep" (John 21:15–17). The word translated as "tend" (poimaine) means "to direct" or "to superintend"—in other words, "to govern." So although there are sheep that are not of Christ’s fold, it is through the Church that they are able to receive his salvation.

People who have never had an opportunity to hear of Christ and his Church—and those Christians whose minds have been closed to the truth of the Church by their conditioning—are not necessarily cut off from God’s mercy. Vatican II phrases the doctrine in these terms: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their consciences—those too may achieve eternal salvation (LG 16).

Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery (Gaudium et Spes 22).

The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches:

Every man who is ignorant of the gospel of Christ and of his Church but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity (CCC 1260).

Obviously, it is not their ignorance that enables them to be saved. Ignorance excuses only lack of knowledge. That which opens the salvation of Christ to them is their conscious effort, under grace, to serve God as well as they can on the basis of the best information they have about him.

The Church speaks of "implicit desire" or "longing" that can exist in the hearts of those who seek God but are ignorant of the means of his grace. If a person longs for salvation but does not know the divinely established means of salvation, he is said to have an implicit desire for membership in the Church. Non-Catholic Christians know Christ, but they do not know his Church. In their desire to serve him, they implicitly desire to be members of his Church. Non-Christians can be saved, said John Paul, if they seek God with "a sincere heart." In that seeking they are "related" to Christ and to his body the Church (address to the CDF).

On the other hand, the Church has long made it clear that if a person rejects the Church with full knowledge and consent, he puts his soul in danger:

They cannot be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or remain in it (cf. LG 14).

The Catholic Church is "the single and exclusive channel by which the truth and grace of Christ enter our world of space and time" (Karl Adam, The Spirit of Catholicism, 179). Those who do not know the Church, even those who fight against it, can receive these gifts if they honestly seek God and his truth. But, Adam says, "though it be not the Catholic Church itself that hands them the bread of truth and grace, yet it is Catholic bread that they eat." And when they eat of it, "without knowing it or willing it" they are "incorporated in the supernatural substance of the Church."

Extra ecclesiam, nulla salus.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR



Fr. Ray Ryland, a convert and former Episcopal priest, holds a Ph.D. in theology from Marquette University and is a contributing editor to This Rock. He writes from Steubenville, Ohio, where he lives with his wife, Ruth.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Ecumenism; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; church; cult; pope; salvation
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To: cva66snipe

I guess it never occured to you that the pharisee’s righteousness and your “forgiveness” are cut from the same cloth. Both of you presume on them for your justification.

The difference between the two of you is, despite his haughty attitude, he *did* what he was told. You, on the other hand, are more interested in proving you’re forgiven than discovering freedom from the law of sin and death.


2,621 posted on 07/15/2009 11:30:19 AM PDT by papertyger (A difference that makes no difference is no difference)
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To: papertyger
You, on the other hand, are more interested in proving

Reading the mind of another Freeper is a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

2,622 posted on 07/15/2009 11:39:03 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: papertyger
Sin is sin and forgiveness is forgiveness. You break one you break them all. You ask forgiveness of them you are forgiven of all. It's that simple. No one can save themselves in what they do in deeds. No one can. No one can live a sinless life. Only Christ led a sinless life. The rest of us who call on His name for salvation are forgiven sinners By The Grace of GOD through Jesus Christ and through no other or by no other can we receive such.

No sin is lesser or better and no sin is less. Any sin can send a lost person to hell. But through Christ a murderer is just as forgiven as one who has coveted, stolen, commit adultery even in their heart, or a liar. His or her sins are no greater or no worse than anyone else's except for the consequences we suffer for them while remaining on this earth. But in Heaven they are indeed all forgiven.

What I did I did in faith. In doing so it has worked. Not by my doings but rather through GOD's Grace and will. I'm not Solomon. But I am forgiven. No one can live likely as much as a day on this earth without doing sin. For one to say they are without sin is sin. My sins are many and I don't pretend they aren't. I was born with a sinful nature and responsible for them when I became in age to be aware sin was sin but I'll die a forgiven sinner in Christ.

Good day.

2,623 posted on 07/15/2009 12:27:25 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgement? Which one say ye?)
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To: cva66snipe; Iscool
This thread poses an interesting juxtaposition of Bible Thumpers(protestants, or anyone else not Roman Catholic) and Church Thumpers (Roman Catholics), as I will reference. I will abbreviate BT or CT, accordingly.

BT's state categorically that all authority comes from Scripture, but can only be interpreted by the RCC. The RCC states that they obtain their authority from Scripture, and alleged a tradition starting with Peter. They state their churches authority allows only their church to determine salvation. Membership is required to achieve salvation, and can only be maintained by eating bread and wine on a regular basis, contributing funds to the church, and doing all the rites and rituals as specified by their church. They believe they only achieve a ticket into heaven by working their way through Rome's legalism (seat of the RCC).

It boggles the mind that they quote Scripture and have no clue about Christ's simple plan of salvation...

John 1: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

6 There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.

10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' " 16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. ...

...

Galatians 2: 11 When Peter came to Antioch, I (Paul) opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. 12 Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.

14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

15 "We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' 16 know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

17 "If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker. 19 For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

2,624 posted on 07/15/2009 12:33:11 PM PDT by WVKayaker (Even stumbling blocks can be used for re-construction - Ernst R. Hauschka)
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To: cva66snipe
No sin is lesser or better and no sin is less.

Then why did Paul insist on putting out the Corinthian man who had his father's wife?

2,625 posted on 07/15/2009 12:44:36 PM PDT by papertyger (A difference that makes no difference is no difference)
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To: cva66snipe; Iscool
Should have read read: CT's state categorically that all authority comes from Scripture ... I had not finished, nor proofed. OOPS!

BT's claim the authority of the Holy Spirit. The Scriptures are held to be the inspired (God- breathed) Word of God, and accepted as functional for the establishment of doctrine, and the edification of the church (small c catholic, meaning universal. BT's do not accept the RCC claims of membership in their organization, based on the BY understanding of Scripture. BT's believe Scripture is contained within the 66 books of the Protestant Bible, which are also subject to revelation by God's Sprit.

I am a BT. I will take my chances... I know the way it ends! His Word will not come back void.

Ephesians 1: 15 For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16 I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. 17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18 I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, 20which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

2,626 posted on 07/15/2009 12:50:07 PM PDT by WVKayaker (Even stumbling blocks can be used for re-construction - Ernst R. Hauschka)
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To: WVKayaker
Salvation is so simple you can teach it to a child even though they may not understand the more advanced theology concerning it. My beef isn't with the RCC. I have no dislike for it. But some of it's it's theology is not what I believe.

In the past few days I've seen my family from various churches drawn together in support of each other in the loss of one of our beloved who was of the RCC. I have no doubts as to that persons eternal home nor even where the person was immediately after the final heart beat came. The beloved ones spirit was with The Lord in heaven at that moment. I can say the same of many of the protestant side of the family as well.

2,627 posted on 07/15/2009 12:52:17 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgement? Which one say ye?)
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To: WVKayaker
It boggles the mind that they quote Scripture and have no clue about Christ's simple plan of salvation...

So which one of the multiple thousand BT congregations has a clue about this "simple" plan.

BTW your characterization of catholic belief and practice is truly apostate.

2,628 posted on 07/15/2009 12:54:34 PM PDT by papertyger (A difference that makes no difference is no difference)
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To: cva66snipe

BTW this person I knew as well had married twice. First marriage was divorce.


2,629 posted on 07/15/2009 12:56:28 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgement? Which one say ye?)
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To: WVKayaker
BT's claim the authority of the Holy Spirit.

BTs claim *a lot* of things, much of which is only tangentially related to scripture, and little of which can they agree on.

2,630 posted on 07/15/2009 1:17:03 PM PDT by papertyger (A difference that makes no difference is no difference)
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To: papertyger
I think you missed the point. You were very quick to defend the Catholic church on the issue of annulments without even considering that not all priests or bishops or cardinals OR popes do the right thing every time.

Can you at least admit that human beings can be wrong and sin even if they are part of the hierarchy? I know pedophilia and homosexual conduct are not approved by your Church yet there have been and probably will continue to be those in the ranks who will commit those acts. Understand the post now?

2,631 posted on 07/15/2009 6:49:51 PM PDT by boatbums (Pro-woman, pro-child, pro-life!)
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To: sonic109
And thus we are back to the beginning. The original writing tries to feign inclusiveness, but here we see - at the end of this thread - the Catholic contingent essentially stating there is ONE Church and it's headed by the Pope.

And taken with the original article (there is no salvation outside of the Church) it is quite obvious that outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation. Salvation depends upon belonging to a Church headed by the Pope. They can wrap it as they want, but that is effectively what is stated. Unless the Catholic contingent is willing to accept the following:

You do not have to belong to a Catholic (i.e.: headed by the Pope or one of the Patriarchs) Church to be saved. You can be saved as a Protestant.

If that statement is accepted, then I see very little reason to defend the position of the pope as the "head of the entire church". In fact, in accepting this statement they are implicitly stating the pope is NOT the head of the entire church! The pope is the head of the Catholic Church, but not the entire catholic (meaning universal, not that headed by the pope) church.

Either Catholics accept others as being saved without acknowledging the papacy, or they don't. The answer will support or deny the original article.

2,632 posted on 07/15/2009 10:16:32 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the sting of truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

Could God save a hindu who never even heard of Jesus Christ?


2,633 posted on 07/15/2009 10:28:08 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr

If God wanted to, yes.


2,634 posted on 07/15/2009 11:47:47 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the sting of truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

Then I reckon He could save a Protestant.

;)

Salvation is up to God. He is not bound by the Sacraments. The head of the Church is Jesus Christ, the pope is His vicar.

“The Church is the sacrament of salvation for all humankind, and her activity is not limited only to those who accept her message” (RM 20).

Perhaps even a hindu who never saw priest.


2,635 posted on 07/16/2009 2:35:56 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr
“The Church is the sacrament of salvation for all humankind, ... defendingheresy

Galatians 3: 15 Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ. 17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

19 What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one.

21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22 But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ[h] that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

2,636 posted on 07/16/2009 6:15:35 AM PDT by WVKayaker (Even stumbling blocks can be used for re-construction - Ernst R. Hauschka)
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To: kosta50
“But how do you know that this is true?”

I'm posting this reply and all the while knowing that you'll think my answer absurd, but nonetheless here it is.

I know that this is true because Christ said it to be so.

I know, I know, you're probably thinking that this precisely the sort of answer that I expected from an ignorant country bumpkin. Well, if that is the case, then so be it.

You wont get any vain philosophy or the or puffed up pontificating of a strutting banny rooster here. Only a simple, humble, reliant faith in the written word of God.

All that I have is His written word, and I will wager my eternal soul on it.

2,637 posted on 07/16/2009 8:43:29 PM PDT by Semper Mark (Third World trickle up poverty, will lead to cascading Third World tyranny.)
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To: D-fendr; PugetSoundSoldier

“Could God save a Hindu who never even heard of Jesus Christ?”

No.


2,638 posted on 07/16/2009 9:53:00 PM PDT by Semper Mark (Third World trickle up poverty, will lead to cascading Third World tyranny.)
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To: Markos33
I'm posting this reply and all the while knowing that you'll think my answer absurd, but nonetheless here it is.

I have no desire to judge others, Markos33.

I know that this is true because Christ said it to be so.

How do you know Christ said so?

I know, I know, you're probably thinking that this precisely the sort of answer that I expected from an ignorant country bumpkin. Well, if that is the case, then so be it.

You are not reading me right "pumpkin." :) When you say that you "know" something so definitively, why would I assume it's done in ignorance?

I am giving you the benefit of a doubt by recognizing your claim. I just want to know how.

You wont get any vain philosophy or the or puffed up pontificating of a strutting banny rooster here. Only a simple, humble, reliant faith in the written word of God.

Let's leave vanity out of this. Vanity can be wordless too, not just in the form of puffed up pontificating and vain philosophy.

You are not under attack or judgment. I simply asked how do you know what you say you know.

Only a simple, humble, reliant faith in the written word of God.

How do you know it's the written word of God?

All that I have is His written word, and I will wager my eternal soul on it

How do you know your soul is eternal? Did it exist before you did, before time, without a beginning and without an end? How do you now all that?

2,639 posted on 07/16/2009 10:16:36 PM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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To: Markos33; D-fendr; PugetSoundSoldier
D-fendr: “Could God save a Hindu who never even heard of Jesus Christ?”

Markos33: No.

How do you know that? How do you know what God can or can't do?

2,640 posted on 07/16/2009 10:19:18 PM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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