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To: annalex; Dr. Eckleburg

You have again wandered far afield from the original issue on the table. Does a man possess the “unaided self-will to decide what moral choices he makes, uninfluenced and unguided?”

We contend that any decision which is foreknown is fixed in history to have a specific outcome. Since God’s knowledge is “pre” that decision, all decisions are fixed even if you “feel” free to make them. Your perception is not at issue. What a human feels is not what is necessarily the real situation.

In Peter’s case, he did not feel any “hand” guiding him to deny Christ, yet, right on cue, he did the deed. It felt like this was all his own will, his own choice. But, Jesus was clear, He knew what Peter was going to “choose” because being God, He knew all things, past and present. You argue that this gave Peter utter freedom to deny or not deny. We argue that Peter was not free to not deny. By extension this is the situation of every man.

Just as Paul lamented that he was not free to choose that which was good over that which he hated. You mangle this into, “Well, then Paul could have had a chance to think about choosing what he might have had to choose if he really thought about what he might want to think about.” Huh? Speak english, Annalex.


294 posted on 07/06/2009 11:17:46 AM PDT by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88
We contend that any decision which is foreknown is fixed in history to have a specific outcome. Since God’s knowledge is “pre” that decision, all decisions are fixed even if you “feel” free to make them. Your perception is not at issue. What a human feels is not what is necessarily the real situation.

AMEN!

One more excellent reason sola Scriptura is sound and sensible doctrine.

"The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." -- Psalm 12:6-7


296 posted on 07/06/2009 12:02:21 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dutchboy88; Dr. Eckleburg

I explained what free will is several times. It is a capacity to choose between courses of action that is left after all the limitations and influences have been counted in. The passage from Paul only says that choices for the good are difficult to make, and were it not for the grace of Christ, impossible. But they do not deny free will — it is referenced right in the passage, as I pointed out.

This capacity to choose is not mere feeling, it is real. The scripture tells us that we are judged by our works (Romans 2, Matthew 25, James 2). God would not judge us by illusory things that we actually have no input into.

I understand that Calvinism teaches different. My job here is to explain what the Catholic Church teaches. I believe I did that exhaustively, but if you have further questions, please pose them.


297 posted on 07/06/2009 12:14:19 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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