Posted on 05/03/2009 9:53:16 AM PDT by OneVike
No, He was not. More importantly, He is not.
NO!
Encyclical Letter, Quod Apostolici Muneris (On Socialism).
Religious socialism, Christian socialism, are contradictory terms; no one can be at the same time a good Catholic and a true socialist.
Pius XI, Quadragesimo Anno (On Reconstruction of the Social Order)
Actually, He has already revealed than when He returns, He will clean up the mess.
..and remember the Fornicalia court that ruled that citizens have to pay school taxes but have NO right to express any say-so in what and how the schools teach - whatsoever!? What happened to 'taxation without representation'? Fornicalia is LOST! ...as is Massachusetts ...and Vermont... and New York...
Being a 'ghost', shouldn't your posts be a bit more exctoplasmic or whatever? :-?
Your premise carries some weight. IMHO the reason is because early Christianity grew out of the Essene movement [see Josephus]; the reason had more to do with religious asceticism than political doctrine.
Enplane what exactly you mean, because I am not sure I agree with you on that. I might, but I need you to expound a bit for me to see where you come from with that idea. Not wanting to insult you just curious.
Are you referring to my #127? ...and, if so, are you asking about the Essenes or asceticism?
The comment about the Essenes being the precursors to Christianity. Would not that statement eliminate Christ as the originator of Christianity??
Everything Jesus taught was to be acted upon by the individual, not the state.
State charity allows one’s heart to be soothed without taking action. It also oppresses by forcing those who cannot afford to give, to give, thus making them dependent upon the charities of others.
Removed please.
Jesus was a royalist.
In a PC political and even a PC religious world sometimes it is not easy for US to hear or see with understanding the WORD(s) of Christ.
From my observation 'socialists' are very needy controlling peoples. They in their heart of hearts 'believe' they can do things better. And only they have the intellect to develop the system to observe the natural world to determine how to legislate that natural world. And some in religious circles will even say the 'law' is done away with... and there goes the socialists gladly to make their own laws. But even Christ said there were two commandments... and if one looks at the TEN COMMANDMENTS they are 5 spiritual and 5 civil laws. I do not know how anyone can say the law is done away with, thou shalt not steal seems to still be in effect.
Even in some churches the same ploy is used to gain worldly acceptance and these churches do not see or can they hear that when Christ said 'feed my sheep', that Christ is not talking about a national taxpayer funded soup kitchen.
Christ said there would always be the poor among us, but HE was NOT instructing there to be a systemic program designed for the purpose of creating poor peoples. Christ was not about spreading the misery and then take polls to measure the misery index.
We are told that anyone (individual not group) who would believe upon Him would have 'salvation', not if your group is large enough and rich enough then you can get saved by lobbying some governing official.
I find it more than a little offensive to the Heavenly Father and His only begotten Son for His children to be putting a 'red' dress ideology over Christ as if they heard from God one fine day. (When I use the words 'His children' I do mean every living breathing flesh being upon this earth.)
BUT, as Christ did say these things need be, and for us to 'work' to plant seeds of truth in what might be fertile soil, to take root and grow into producing work, for the promise to come no matter how many or how few talents we have been given.
[Sorry for the delay; many problems lately] The answer would be rather involved. One needs to have an at least average understanding of the Dead Sea Scrolls. > The Essenes were embodied about 240 years prior to the ministry of Christ; their foundations were established on the principle that the founder was a 'Teacher of Righteousness', and that they were to prepare for another Teacher of Righteousness which was to come.
Upon the ministry of Christ and its completion, the Essenes disappeared. The evidence is purely circumstantial... in fact, now there are disputes whether the Essenes actually existed, and - if so - whether they wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls.
How did the Essenes prepare for the Teacher of Righteousness to come [in my opinion?] They prayerfully studied and scribed the existing Scriptural texts extant at the time; one needs to understand that - without mass printing media - the texts were laboriously hand-copied; errors, omissions and insertions inevitably occurred. Much the same as the Masoretes a millennium later, they 'cleaned up' the Torah, Chronicles and prophets in order to preserve a pristine Divine-given text for the coming Teacher of Righteousness to study in order to generate an accurate 'teaching' of God's Word.
A little-noticed miracle observed by modern scholars is that - upon the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls - it was noticed that the Dead Sea Scroll Scriptural texts and the Mosoretic text are nearly identical. By faith, I believe that is a miracle!
By the above theory, one tends to also believe that John the Baptist was also an Essene; in fact, his baptizing rituals were carried out near the very spot where the Essenes reputedly inhabited. If Elijah must first come to prepare the way for Messiah, then the Essenes could well fit the prophecy to a 'T'.
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Perhaps more to the point of this thread, socialism would have not been possible in the time of Jesus. No such political philosophy existed in that day. By definition 'socialism' requires ownership of property by the state; the state determines how much each person 'needs' and confiscates what it considers extraneous.
The early church - IMHO - is more akin to the person who decides to invest $5,000 in a mutual fund; at the same time a thousand other investors decide to invest between $2,000 and $10,000 in the same fund. The result is a 'collective' effort, but it certainly is not socialism; the contributions are voluntary, and the rewards are commiserate with the original investment. Of course this is only a general analogy, not a mirror image of the early church; but it serves to explain why early Christianity could NOT be connected with modern socialism.
Wow, I’m impressed. Are you a Biblical theologian? You and OneVike seem to have a lot in common with eachother. Do you know him? Because he seems to be real up on all that stuff also.
I have been following him for awhile. I started following him when he wrote the article about women and the 19th amendment and have been real impressed with his articles. I read his debates that he has on that site Post Scripts and he really has a way of shutting the opposition down.
I have also been blessed with all I have learned from many of the members that post comments on FreeRepublic. Anytime I click onto a post, I am treated to a free education on any of a number of topics. I would bet there is not a site on the WWW that has a better collection of minds then FreeRepublic can claim. JimRob could start some online college classes with all the learned and intelligent members this place is blessed with.
I’m surprised more people don’t know about this place, or maybe they do and try to avoid it because of all the logic and intelligence displayed. Well, I’m rambling. Sorry.
What you say, does make sense though and I guess you really did not take anything away from Christ. You are just saying that God used them like he used the sequestered Monks later on to preserve the scriptures. Right?
Only God used the Essenes you suggest to train John the baptist properly where he would not have received proper training from the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes of the day. Those whom Christ called white washed tombs, who followed and taught men’s traditions as being above God’s laws.
Well, I’ll let this go and thanks again for all you offered. I’ll keep you in my prayers. I read about you and your friends trouble with lost keys and round trips. It sounded interesting just the same.
Take care.
Ah, no... I was spared that. ;-P Don't they call 'seminaries' 'cemeteries' now?
I have two advantages: 1/ years of study of Christian and Jewish history / mysticism; 2/ the 'gift' of interpretation. I do not claim my interpretations are _always_ correct, but I believe they often lead history and current events in cataloging exactly what is going on.
***JimRob could start some online college classes with all the learned and intelligent members this place is blessed with***
...and has done so in one sense; FR has led the masses in important historical events such as impeachment, the Goron attack on Florida [2000], Dan Rather's failed search for integrity, etc.
***to train John the baptist properly where he would not have received proper training from the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes of the day***
The Essenes were virtually unknown except through the writings of Josephus. Once their prominence was documented, the question that naturally arises is 'why are they not mentioned in the New Testament?' The other main sects of Judaism - Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes - are mentioned in the gospels; why not the Essenes?
One natural answer is that it is because the Essenes WERE the Christians - or, BECAME the Christians. Of course such a statement will likely lead into endless disputes by those dedicated to officially establishing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
It is so easy to review history from the same perspective as the viewer himself; such blinders can obscure the dynamics of what was actually going on at the time in question. For example, we read that Jesus engaged the scholars in the Temple in learned disputes when He was 12 years old; likewise we read that Jesus stepped up in the synagogue at Capernaum and read from Isaiah, and they were amazed.
They were amazed because the son of a carpenter should probably not have even been able to read the Scriptures; there was no 'universal education' then as there is most places today. Working class people were busy earning a supporting life style; like Catholicism of the Middle Ages, the laity depended upon the religious class to quote - and interpret - Scripture.
If we accept all that, then exactly where did Jesus learn how to read and dispute the Scriptures? In this writer's humble opinion he learned same from the Essenes, who had been preparing for over two centuries for just such an event.
If we can accept that John the Baptist manifested the Elijah spirit - as Jesus seemed to indicate - then we might also speculate that the first Teacher of Righteousness also embodied the Elijah spirit. Just like John the Baptist, the Essenes were 'a voice crying in the wilderness'; their whole ministry was to withdraw from current society into the wilderness and seclude themselves for more study, meditation and sacrifice.
Nothing in this theoretical scenario contradicts the Scriptural prophecy that Elijah must first come before; indeed, it would seem - to me - to reinforce the prophecy, to add validity to it.
***I’ll keep you in my prayers***
Thank you! ... much needed. And I will pray for your further revelation - in the Holy Spirit.
If you have time, you might enjoy my Bible Mysteries pages. FReegards, IR
No.
Jesus is not a Socialist. the Bible consistently presents man as a property owner.
socialism doesn’t work even when solic christians implement it.
the Bible teaches voluntary giving not stealing from men in forced giving.
Socialists have no ally in the Bible. Thheir problem is that they understand as litlle of it as the do of the nature of man and the workings of governmsnt.
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