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To: Godzilla; Diego1618
Passover is 15 Nisan, not 14, they were remembering something else - the Crucifixion.

Passover, as set by the Lord, is Nisan 14. Modern Jews don't generally recognize this and instead (usually) observe it on Nisan 15. They also usually use the terms "Passover" and "the day of unleavened bread" interchangebly when in fact they are different biblically:

Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's passover.
Lev 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

Furthermore, the CONTEXT was your emphasis of sabbath worship - not celebration of passover.

The whole point of my posts was to show that that issue of observing the Lords' holy days still wasn't decided more than 300 years after the death of Christ.

As early as Act 20, believers were celebrating the Lord's supper on the Lords day (Acts 20:7).

It's not at all a given that this was a Sunday.

The Good News Translation:

(GNB) On Saturday evening we gathered together for the fellowship meal. Paul spoke to the people and kept on speaking until midnight, since he was going to leave the next day

Modern King james: (MKJV) And on the first of the sabbaths, the disciples having been assembled to break bread, being about to depart on the morrow, Paul reasoned to them. And he continued his speech until midnight.

Most sabbath keepers would recognize this as a fellowship meal after sabbath services. A potluck.

Diego has done an excellent study on the "first of the sabbaths" or "one of the sabbaths". I'll ping him and let him explain further. But suffice to say that "break bread" doesn't always mean the Lords' supper.

In Revelation it is called the Lord's day by John.

The only day the Lord claims as his is the sabbath and the holy days:

Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Complete Jewish Bible:(CJB) I came to be, in the Spirit, on the Day of the Lord; and I heard behind me a loud voice, like a trumpet,

International Standard Version: (ISV) I came to be in the Spirit on the Day of the Lord, when I heard a loud voice behind me like a trumpet,

John was transported in spirit to that time when Christ returns, the day of the Lord.

Isa 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

Eze 13:5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.

Joe 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The events in Revelation describe the time period known as the day of the Lord.

381 posted on 04/13/2009 9:00:32 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC; MarkBsnr; JohnnyM
The whole point of my posts was to show that that issue of observing the Lords' holy days still wasn't decided more than 300 years after the death of Christ.

Sorry to tell ya this Doug, but so far you have only been able to substantiate your point by taking scripture passages out of context and adding a great deal of subjective input. References to the holydays in the NT are more based upon the Jewish calendar linkage to the Resurrection than it is to celebrating those ‘feasts’. I have shown that in Galatians and Acts that the observance of those feasts were not required by the Jewish leadership of the early Church, nor taught by Paul – on the contrary Paul taught that they were no longer necessary for the Christian.

As early as Act 20, believers were celebrating the Lord's supper on the Lords day (Acts 20:7).
It's not at all a given that this was a Sunday.
The Good News Translation:
(GNB) On Saturday evening we gathered together for the fellowship meal. Paul spoke to the people and kept on speaking until midnight, since he was going to leave the next day

Please be consistent here Doug, how were days reckoned? Sunset to sunset – therefore this was no longer the Sabbath but the next day. For it to have been the Sabbath, it would have required it to be Friday evening.

Modern King james: (MKJV) And on the first of the sabbaths, the disciples having been assembled to break bread, being about to depart on the morrow, Paul reasoned to them. And he continued his speech until midnight.
Most sabbath keepers would recognize this as a fellowship meal after sabbath services. A potluck.

Except this was not the “modern” era Doug, see reckoning the start of the Sabbath – Friday evening NOT Saturday evening. The phrase “first of the Sabbaths” is equivalent to the first day of the week (where the word here is the plural form sabbathow – indicating seven days)

Diego has done an excellent study on the "first of the sabbaths" or "one of the sabbaths". I'll ping him and let him explain further. But suffice to say that "break bread" doesn't always mean the Lords' supper.

Suffered through the gross twisting of scripture already, thanks. Suffice it to say his ‘explanation’ is seriously flawed and his premises built upon sand.

In Revelation it is called the Lord's day by John.
The only day the Lord claims as his is the sabbath and the holy days:

Sorry to break this to you again Doug, but your interpretation is not supported by the greek as well as usage throughout the bible. There is a significant difference between “the Lord’s Day” and “Day of the Lord” both in words and usage, and choosing a version that does not accurately translate the phrase only compounds your misunderstandings. In Revelation, John uses “kyriakos hēmera”. This is separate from the “Day of the Lord” -hemera tou kyriou which is a reference to the Judgement day. kyriake hemera is consistenly used in the NT to refer to Sunday, but there are no early witnesses to the use of kyriake hemera as a name for Sabbath. “kyriakos hēmera” is never used in reference to the day of judgment.

The events in Revelation describe the time period known as the day of the Lord.

“kyriakos hēmera, - the Lord’s day, not what has been erroneously translated as the Day of the Lord. A careful study of Revelation makes it clear that John did not want to get the two confused and besides, the phrase “Lord’s Day” was already in common use in the church by AD 90 as further indicated by the Didache (late 1st Century) and Justin.

384 posted on 04/14/2009 9:22:20 AM PDT by Godzilla (Galatians 4:16 So iz i ur enemi now becz i tellded u teh troof?)
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To: DouglasKC; All
Diego has done an excellent study on the "first of the Sabbaths" or "one of the Sabbaths". I'll ping him and let him explain further.

Thank you, Douglas. I'll be glad to post my thoughts on this subject. I'm sure it will stir up the hornet's nest.

[Matthew 28:1] In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. (verse 6) He is risen. King James Version

And in the end of the sabbath, when it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalen and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre. Douay/Rheims

And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre. Young's Literal Translation

In all three examples this event is taking place on a Sabbath....and verse six in all three examples say, "He is risen"....past tense!

Here is the actual Greek: oye de sabbatwn th epifwskoush eiV mian sabbatwn hlqen maria h magdalhnh kai h allh maria qewrhsai ton tafon

If I were to translate this word for word it would be thus: The later of, and on the Sabbaths, at the dawn to the first of the Sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene and the other Mary to see the tomb.

Matthew is stating a simple fact. There were two Sabbaths crucifixion week and this one was the latter. It was known as the SABBATWN" (Sabbaths), plural.

Let's look at [John 19:31] oi oun ioudaioi ina mh meinh epi tou staurou ta swmata en tw sabbatw epei paraskeuh hn hn gar megalh h hmera ekeinou tou sabbatou hrwthsan ton pilaton ina kateagwsin autwn ta skelh kai arqwsin

And the English: The Jews, therefore, that the bodies might not remain on the cross on the sabbath, since it was the preparation, (for that sabbath day was a great one,) asked of Pilate that their legs may be broken, and they taken away.

John writes the first Sabbath as a noun describing the type of Sabbath it was.... a SABBATW (singular). The second mention of Sabbath is an adjective describing the day itself A SABBATOU (Sabbath day).

The Greeks had no word in their language for Sabbath so the translation from Hebrew writers (Matthew and John) follow the pronunciation of the Hebrew fairly well. The Hebrew for a special Sabbath (one of God's seven throughout the year) is "Sabatwon" and a normal weekly Sabbath was usually called "ha Sabat". During crucifixion week the first Sabbath (Wednesday evening/Thursday daylight) was the First Day of Unleavened Bread [Leviticus 23:6] and the Apostle John confirms in [19:31] that it was a special Sabbath (SABBATW).

When the Israelites were told about Passover and Pentecost they were instructed to count fifty days from the day after the Sabbath [Leviticus 23:15-16] and thus arrive at Shavuot (Pentecost). This method of counting is in dispute among many Sabbatarians. I believe the first Sabbath was the First Day of Unleavened.....some still believe the Sabbath in question was the weekly Sabbath. Nevertheless, during the 50 day count seven weekly Sabbaths were encountered and the Israelites held these seven Sabbaths as special also....SABBATWN. This count is known as The Count of the Omer.

Consequently, when you see the word SABBATW (singular) or SABBATWN (plural) in scripture you will know that it is not your normal weekly Sabbath being discussed .....nor is it the "First Day of the Week" being referred to. If you look at the link you will see that all the resurrection passages refer to either SABBATW or SABBTWN as the day of resurrection. [Matthew 28:1][Mark 16:2][Luke 24:1][John 20:1].

During the year 30 A.D. now commonly accepted as the Crucifixion/Resurrection Year you will notice that Passover, the 14th [Leviticus 23:5] fell on a Wednesday and this was the date of Our Lord's sacrifice. The next day, the 15th [Leviticus 23:6] was The First Sabbath of Unleavened. The next day, the 16th was the day that began the count of the Omer. The following day.....the 17th, was the day of resurrection....The First SABBATW in the seven SABBATW count to Shavuot (Pentecost).

441 posted on 04/14/2009 3:29:49 PM PDT by Diego1618
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