Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: LeGrande; Alamo-Girl; mrjesse; betty boop; MHGinTN; xzins; Hank Kerchief
...the inescapable conclusion so far is that the observer is inherently part of the equation.

That is, he is part of the very same system that he observes, and moreover his observation ineluctably "disturbs" the system he's observing.... There is a certain sense in which the subjectivity inherent in perception is not reducible to zero. And that is why, I suppose, the uncertainty principle (a/k/a/ the indeterminacy principle) is not confined just to the quantum world, but is a constant feature of Reality at all scales.

668 posted on 06/12/2009 1:44:26 PM PDT by betty boop (Tyranny is always whimsical. — Mark Steyn)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 638 | View Replies ]


To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl; mrjesse; MHGinTN; xzins; Hank Kerchief
Is it safe to say that no one is questioning the Theory of Relativity, QM or basic observational physics in our space/time?

The only question seems to be is if there is some hypothetical being outside of space/time (reality as we know it) could other rules apply to that being? Certainly! Anything is possible in our imaginations! Heck we even invented God : )

673 posted on 06/12/2009 2:42:19 PM PDT by LeGrande (I once heard a smart man say that you canÂ’t reason someone out of something that they didnÂ’t reaso)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 668 | View Replies ]

To: betty boop

“That is, he is part of the very same system that he observes, and moreover his observation ineluctably “disturbs” the system he’s observing.... There is a certain sense in which the subjectivity inherent in perception is not reducible to zero.”

What a load of post-modernist pseudo-scientific bunk. What, the only way anything can be correctly observed is if there is no context? What, we cannot understand that we are part of the context of everything we observe?

If our own existence and nature invalidate the certainty of any observation, all the observations on which the uncertainty principle are based have to be thrown out—thus, no uncertainty principle.

Sigh!!!

Hank


679 posted on 06/12/2009 3:13:12 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 668 | View Replies ]

To: betty boop
That is, he is part of the very same system that he observes, and moreover his observation ineluctably "disturbs" the system he's observing.... There is a certain sense in which the subjectivity inherent in perception is not reducible to zero. And that is why, I suppose, the uncertainty principle (a/k/a/ the indeterminacy principle) is not confined just to the quantum world, but is a constant feature of Reality at all scales.

Indeed. Even at the root, cognition marks a successful communication which reduces uncertainty (Shannon entropy, information theory.) And if molecular machinery is involved, upon receipt of the message heat is dissipated into the local environment paying the thermodynamic tab. And the cause/effect chain continues.

Where there is an observer, there is life and cause/effect simply by its making an observation even if the object observed is not apparently, directly affected (e.g. quantum measurement v. looking at a mountain.)

Thank you for sharing your wonderful insights, dearest sister in Christ!

701 posted on 06/12/2009 9:45:35 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 668 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson